Voluntary work, is it worth it?

It was paid by insurance, wombat. That's what the scouts have insurance for, against any litigation, just like you probably have on your household insurance.

It won't have cost the Scouts anything. They have insurance, which has paid out and the parent have donated some of the money to an autism charity.

It seems to me that the parents only sued when they felt they were hitting their heads against a brick wall in trying to resolve this. I doubt even lawyers want this level of stress.

As it happens, I have a friend whose autistic son has also been excluded from Scouts. His differences meant he was constantly baited by other children trying to provoke a reaction from him. The Scout groups response was to exclude him but leave the perpetrators unpunished. And this is a child whose own father volunteered for five years with Beavers.

The Scouts Association have a duty of care towards both children and volunteers and in this case, they failed. That's why they were sued.

Maryeliza, I've read your link and I agree with Day6 and Jura2
Sueing the Scouts, which can't be a wealthy organisation is a disgrace.

Indeed.

Or financially penalising hospital trusts or train companies for delays - does that make the service any better? Sorry to digress.

Are you seriously suggesting sharing a child's confidential medical information to professionals not involved in that child's care is okay?

Maybe the situation could have been handled better. But what's the point in awarding punitive damages against an organization like the Scouts?

Volunteering in general is a very good thing and it would be sad if this unfortunate well-publicised case puts people off.

The parents were wrong to sue.

My SIL is a Scout leader and has attended many training courses. We are lucky that there are plenty of helpers in this neck of the woods.

If a child has special needs, then the parents should co-operate fully over helping the leaders to meet those needs.

Jacalpad, I’m also a Leader and fully agree with everything you say. It’s a constant worry trying to ensure that there are enough helpers and publicity like this will only serve to put people off.

I can quite understand that the parents were concerned about the divulgence of medical information and maybe the SA were somewhat heavy handed although I would sooner be safer than sorry as a parent. However, suing for money is extreme and totally unnecessary. A public apology and a review of provision of care is all that was needed.

I’m finding it difficult to sort out what I think about this. As a teacher ( retired)I am completely for inclusion. However, also as a teacher, I know how very challenging this can be. I think the scout group would have been damned if they did and damned if they didn’t, in terms of the proper care of the boy. Having one to one care needn’t mean that he was followed constantly, but it could mean that there was a designated person, who could deal with problems as needed. This is obviously more difficult with volunteers. I don’t think legal action is appropriate.

The scouts etc. are run by volunteers and volunteers should not be expected to do anything they are not comfortable with. So, if you have a child who attends these sorts of groups who can be unpredictable and difficult to manage in some circumstances for whatever reason then, in my opinion, it is reasonable for family members to provide extra support when needed.

According to what you read in the news nowadays the majority of our judges seem very lacking in common sense. How can a perceived slight like this be worth almost £50,000 of offence, how can a voluntary group find that sort of money, how it benefitting anyone? The group could close or voluntary help could disappear as it's just not worth all the hassle.

It seems to me almost everyone these days has some sort of difficulty for which they can claim a perceived offence from someone somewhere. If there are genuinely so many people who have special or additional needs then there needs to be some major research into why it is so prevalent!!

ME there id no reason to asume others have not read the account in the DT. I had and also heard thr mother interviewed on radio. I still think the parents were wrong to sue. In the radio interview the mother said they had arrived late and had a couple of mishaps before setting out. Unless you do volunteer for such groups then maybe you should have some understsnding of the work involved. The society we live in now is quite litigious and this case illustrates that!

From the article 'The association said it was also looking at plans for mandatory training for all adult volunteers on "how to make reasonable adjustments for young people with developmental disabilities".
Well, this is quite reasonable, and I would have thought it would have should be part of the training. However it does make me wonder about the level of responsibility placed on the shoulders of volunteers. I am not surprised at the shortfall.

As a volunteer leader with Girlguiding for almost 35 years, I have followed this thread with enormous interest. We are unpaid volunteers and have to regularly attend and update trainings for safeguarding, health and safety, data protection, first aid, food and hygiene, risk assessments etc. We also have to complete licences to take children away. It is really difficult to get volunteers to commit to regular weekly meetings, and can be very, very challenging to find adults willing to volunteer to go away with units. We have to risk assess all meetings and every event and time away. We have a special needs adviser in the county, who can be approached for any advice we need. In my unit we have been fortunate that parents of any girl who may need special help have always been willing/offered to join us if appropriate (or provide a carer known to the child). I am proud of the fact that we are an all-inclusive organisation.

It really saddens me that the situation in the papers has arisen. I think everyone involved will ‘lose’ as a result of the publicity and actions - there can be no ‘winners’, and what has it achieved?

With the serious lack of volunteer leaders, and all the red tape and restrictions, the wonderful opportunities offered to young people in Scouting and Guiding may well diminish before long.

I think we could all maybe agree that it's a difficult situation that needs both the Scout group and parents to sit down and talk through. People do give up huge amounts of their time to run these groups and maybe a little extra assistance rather than a constant one to one might have helped. My DGS has started Beavers but they are likely to close due to a lack of volunteers, his Mum & Dad have agreed to go on a rota of volunteers (once they've had all the checks of course) to work alongside the trained leaders to help keep it going. My DGD can't start Rainbows as that group has folded as the leaders have retired and no one wants to step up and run the group. I don't pretend to know what the answer is (except maybe a universal income that means people could choose not to work at jobs they hate but have a lot more time to volunteer and help communities and society in general), now I bet that sparks an argument or two!

Disgraceful behaviour on the part of boy's parents. They should be ashamed of themselves.
If the boy became distressed or overwhelmed which is perfectly possible where things and routines are unfamiliar, he would want a parent there to settle him down again and to feel secure. He would be much more able to re-join the group activity with the reassurance of a parent in the background.
I question the common sense of any judge who would condone or award compensation like this.

Maryeliza, I have read most of the articles. Without doubt this was handled badly, that sometimes happens when people are unprepared.
Of course, all youth leaders need proper training and support, and such organisations need to follow proper guidelines. I remain unclear on some of the issues that were raised, such as how much guidance was requested and / or given by the Scout Association.
Volunteers can be expected to have a broad understanding, but they cannot possibly have the knowledge and experience found in schools, so I do think that comparison unhelpful.
I am also unclear as to what confidentiality was breached. My own action, in a similar circumstance (and guided by my mum who had a child with disabilities in her Brownie pack in the 60s) was to ask parents if a broad explanation of the child's difficulties could be shared with the group.
Kids can be very supportive & helpful if approached in the right way; but if they see a member disobeying the rules, leaders uncertain of what to do, and no explanation, the atmosphere becomes difficult.
In this case, the other kids were aware that their friend with ADHD might 'run off' and would either stop him, or call for help if they spotted the signs.
We also had a child at the group who had a one-to-one; that helper simply joined in everything, helped the other kids,didn't make it obvious that her primary concern was the child with special needs, but we all knew that was where her focus was.
I don't think anyone comes out of this well, but remain, like others, very concerned that volunteers will decide it is not worth it. Almost every notice board in our area has a sign saying that 'Toytown Brownies / Scouts / etc. will close unless we get more helpers'. A local estate agent has offered a grant to resurrect a Scout group in the town, but the problem is not money, it is volunteers. And the staff at the estate agents are not stepping forward to take a bunch of kids on hikes and camps!

Rediculous but unfortunately the norm today and yes I do agree that this sort of attitude will increasingly frustrate and eventually dissuade people from volunteering time and assistance. Eventually voluntary organisations such as the Scouts, and many other organisations will be all the worse for the lack of help. Some such things will completely fold.

Do these ‘lawyers’ have any idea what their attitudes achieve? I saw an advert on the telly yesterday where a chap tripped and fell in the road, the sort of thing that anyone on here might do any day if the week. He was informed he had a ‘right’ to compensation. What bollox, he tripped - should have looked where he was going. Now this American legislative compensation culture is driving up prices of EVERYTHING from insurance to transport, simply to pay for ‘compensation’ for misguided fools who cannot think outside of their ‘rights’. Makes me spit !!!

Is this not perhaps a result of the society we live in. Groups have to be responsible for so much these days, and the fallout from mistakes or errors of judgement can be so great, that they 'over protect' themselves, just in case!

Totally agree with jura2 & Day6 and their considered contributions.

Litigation with huge payouts will only result in organisations abandoning these more risky trips. I have seen this happen in schools.

maryeliza54 you're posts are patronising and rude.

Durhamjen, for several years I had a very disturbed autistic child brought to my home one afternoon a week, from her school at 3pm and cared for her ,giving her teas, playing with her and keeping her until 7:30pm and then taking her home, so that her parents and 3 siblings could have one meal and a short time together without her needs and behaviour being paramount.
I had her one full day a week during school holidays and we attempted one overnight a month but that wasn't possible, her needs were too great.
It only stopped when she became too physically strong for my H and I and very soon afterwards for her parents.
I have an 8 year old GS recently diagnosed with autism but he is totally on the other end of the scale, being highly intelligent but only liking the company of adults.
So to answer your question, yes I don't mind at all looking after an autistic child, UNDER THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES, and when that child is my only concern at that time.

The parents have indirectly curtailed the freedom and pleasures of thousands of others by their actions. It is another case of the law of unintended consequences where a special pleading for one individual will result in back covering henceforth. It may well be the beginning of the end for adventure weekends away for youngsters.

Foe every virtue signalling, 'Well, I would go and look after the child!' (and who believes this anyway?) there will be a dozen volunteers who will now think twice before putting themselves on the line.

People expect far too much from voluntary groups. No wonder they fold. So every child is deprived of some adventure and outdoor fun. We had a walking group where parents dumped their kids on us on a Saturday while they went shopping. Glorified child minders. We had to stop children from coming.

Have you had a bad experience with the scouts ME? Because well you seem a bit "antiscoutist"

maryeliza54

Please note that I don't take kindly to remarks directed at me which include crude language albeit in acronym form.