Voluntary work, is it worth it?

Maryeliza, I have read most of the articles. Without doubt this was handled badly, that sometimes happens when people are unprepared.
Of course, all youth leaders need proper training and support, and such organisations need to follow proper guidelines. I remain unclear on some of the issues that were raised, such as how much guidance was requested and / or given by the Scout Association.
Volunteers can be expected to have a broad understanding, but they cannot possibly have the knowledge and experience found in schools, so I do think that comparison unhelpful.
I am also unclear as to what confidentiality was breached. My own action, in a similar circumstance (and guided by my mum who had a child with disabilities in her Brownie pack in the 60s) was to ask parents if a broad explanation of the child's difficulties could be shared with the group.
Kids can be very supportive & helpful if approached in the right way; but if they see a member disobeying the rules, leaders uncertain of what to do, and no explanation, the atmosphere becomes difficult.
In this case, the other kids were aware that their friend with ADHD might 'run off' and would either stop him, or call for help if they spotted the signs.
We also had a child at the group who had a one-to-one; that helper simply joined in everything, helped the other kids,didn't make it obvious that her primary concern was the child with special needs, but we all knew that was where her focus was.
I don't think anyone comes out of this well, but remain, like others, very concerned that volunteers will decide it is not worth it. Almost every notice board in our area has a sign saying that 'Toytown Brownies / Scouts / etc. will close unless we get more helpers'. A local estate agent has offered a grant to resurrect a Scout group in the town, but the problem is not money, it is volunteers. And the staff at the estate agents are not stepping forward to take a bunch of kids on hikes and camps!

Disgraceful behaviour on the part of boy's parents. They should be ashamed of themselves.
If the boy became distressed or overwhelmed which is perfectly possible where things and routines are unfamiliar, he would want a parent there to settle him down again and to feel secure. He would be much more able to re-join the group activity with the reassurance of a parent in the background.
I question the common sense of any judge who would condone or award compensation like this.

I think we could all maybe agree that it's a difficult situation that needs both the Scout group and parents to sit down and talk through. People do give up huge amounts of their time to run these groups and maybe a little extra assistance rather than a constant one to one might have helped. My DGS has started Beavers but they are likely to close due to a lack of volunteers, his Mum & Dad have agreed to go on a rota of volunteers (once they've had all the checks of course) to work alongside the trained leaders to help keep it going. My DGD can't start Rainbows as that group has folded as the leaders have retired and no one wants to step up and run the group. I don't pretend to know what the answer is (except maybe a universal income that means people could choose not to work at jobs they hate but have a lot more time to volunteer and help communities and society in general), now I bet that sparks an argument or two!

As a volunteer leader with Girlguiding for almost 35 years, I have followed this thread with enormous interest. We are unpaid volunteers and have to regularly attend and update trainings for safeguarding, health and safety, data protection, first aid, food and hygiene, risk assessments etc. We also have to complete licences to take children away. It is really difficult to get volunteers to commit to regular weekly meetings, and can be very, very challenging to find adults willing to volunteer to go away with units. We have to risk assess all meetings and every event and time away. We have a special needs adviser in the county, who can be approached for any advice we need. In my unit we have been fortunate that parents of any girl who may need special help have always been willing/offered to join us if appropriate (or provide a carer known to the child). I am proud of the fact that we are an all-inclusive organisation.

It really saddens me that the situation in the papers has arisen. I think everyone involved will ‘lose’ as a result of the publicity and actions - there can be no ‘winners’, and what has it achieved?

With the serious lack of volunteer leaders, and all the red tape and restrictions, the wonderful opportunities offered to young people in Scouting and Guiding may well diminish before long.

From the article 'The association said it was also looking at plans for mandatory training for all adult volunteers on "how to make reasonable adjustments for young people with developmental disabilities".
Well, this is quite reasonable, and I would have thought it would have should be part of the training. However it does make me wonder about the level of responsibility placed on the shoulders of volunteers. I am not surprised at the shortfall.

ME there id no reason to asume others have not read the account in the DT. I had and also heard thr mother interviewed on radio. I still think the parents were wrong to sue. In the radio interview the mother said they had arrived late and had a couple of mishaps before setting out. Unless you do volunteer for such groups then maybe you should have some understsnding of the work involved. The society we live in now is quite litigious and this case illustrates that!

The scouts etc. are run by volunteers and volunteers should not be expected to do anything they are not comfortable with. So, if you have a child who attends these sorts of groups who can be unpredictable and difficult to manage in some circumstances for whatever reason then, in my opinion, it is reasonable for family members to provide extra support when needed.

According to what you read in the news nowadays the majority of our judges seem very lacking in common sense. How can a perceived slight like this be worth almost £50,000 of offence, how can a voluntary group find that sort of money, how it benefitting anyone? The group could close or voluntary help could disappear as it's just not worth all the hassle.

It seems to me almost everyone these days has some sort of difficulty for which they can claim a perceived offence from someone somewhere. If there are genuinely so many people who have special or additional needs then there needs to be some major research into why it is so prevalent!!

I’m finding it difficult to sort out what I think about this. As a teacher ( retired)I am completely for inclusion. However, also as a teacher, I know how very challenging this can be. I think the scout group would have been damned if they did and damned if they didn’t, in terms of the proper care of the boy. Having one to one care needn’t mean that he was followed constantly, but it could mean that there was a designated person, who could deal with problems as needed. This is obviously more difficult with volunteers. I don’t think legal action is appropriate.

I can quite understand that the parents were concerned about the divulgence of medical information and maybe the SA were somewhat heavy handed although I would sooner be safer than sorry as a parent. However, suing for money is extreme and totally unnecessary. A public apology and a review of provision of care is all that was needed.

Jacalpad, I’m also a Leader and fully agree with everything you say. It’s a constant worry trying to ensure that there are enough helpers and publicity like this will only serve to put people off.

Volunteering in general is a very good thing and it would be sad if this unfortunate well-publicised case puts people off.

The parents were wrong to sue.

My SIL is a Scout leader and has attended many training courses. We are lucky that there are plenty of helpers in this neck of the woods.

If a child has special needs, then the parents should co-operate fully over helping the leaders to meet those needs.

Maybe the situation could have been handled better. But what's the point in awarding punitive damages against an organization like the Scouts?

Are you seriously suggesting sharing a child's confidential medical information to professionals not involved in that child's care is okay?

Indeed.

Or financially penalising hospital trusts or train companies for delays - does that make the service any better? Sorry to digress.

Maryeliza, I've read your link and I agree with Day6 and Jura2
Sueing the Scouts, which can't be a wealthy organisation is a disgrace.

It won't have cost the Scouts anything. They have insurance, which has paid out and the parent have donated some of the money to an autism charity.

It seems to me that the parents only sued when they felt they were hitting their heads against a brick wall in trying to resolve this. I doubt even lawyers want this level of stress.

As it happens, I have a friend whose autistic son has also been excluded from Scouts. His differences meant he was constantly baited by other children trying to provoke a reaction from him. The Scout groups response was to exclude him but leave the perpetrators unpunished. And this is a child whose own father volunteered for five years with Beavers.

The Scouts Association have a duty of care towards both children and volunteers and in this case, they failed. That's why they were sued.

It was paid by insurance, wombat. That's what the scouts have insurance for, against any litigation, just like you probably have on your household insurance.

My daughter with disabilities was excluded by the brownies as well despite having a support worker with her at all times. How very Christian!

When our dfs wanted to go to Cubs and he has learning disability he was only allowed to go each week if I also volunteered to go too. I also ended up cooking Christmas dinner for all Scouts, Cubs and Beavers and leaders. It is just something you do to allow children with disabilities to join in normal fun activities and clubs.

I spent 30 years working with children with difficulties most of whom had been excluded from school. We went on lots of trips including camping. We were trained to deal with all eventualities and write risk assessments to cover all possibilities. For unpaid volunteers that is expecting a lot.
When my own son was ten he fell from a rope swing in a campsite and broke his collarbone. The campsite owner was very concerned and probably thought we would make a complaint - we wouldn't dream of it or there would be no rope swings for kids to play on.
I wonder what they did with the payout - seems extreme to me.

I have read the article but am none the wiser as to how many Scouts there were, what age range, how many Volunteers and their ages and training, surely saying they needed a bit of help from the parents with a child who has been diagnosed with autism and could become distressed being away doesn't seem too much.

JaneJudge - it is a great shame that the Brownies didn't include your daughter and without knowing more, I am quite surprised.
Of course I am not suggesting sharing confidential medical information. My suggestion was, in discussion with parents, sharing an explanation, at different levels, that would be helpful to leaders, other parents and kids. I won't make an example of this case, but I have done the following:
Leaders know that child has been diagnosed with ADHD
Other parents know that child has a condition that makes his behaviour sometimes unpredictable - please help your kids to understand, and talk to us if you think there are issues that need dealing with.
Kids: Child sometimes can't manage things the same as you (older child gives some explanation). Please understand if he does something that seems odd - and let a leader know if there's a problem.
And in 3 cases I have been involved in (as a volunteer) I have known nothing but helpfulness from the other kids. In one case, they enjoyed altering games that could include a wheelchair user.

At a personal level, I would much rather tell people in such a group 'my child has X' than have them wonder what on earth is going on. But of course, you need discussion between leaders and parents as to what feels comfortable.

I did get the impression that the parents did not understand the leaders' concerns, as they did not understand the different environments of Scouts, Beavers and schools. I don't have a clue what some of the leaders were thinking - they do seem to have made some unhelpful comments.

My 3 DCs (1 son and 2 daughters) all with Down Syndrome went to scouts. They were involved in everything, camping and visiting Norway, Sweden and Germany, total inclusion. On a lighter note poor DD started menstruating whilst at camp totally unexpected as she was only 10 poor girl, everyone coped

As a Beaver leader we were very inclusive but the parents with any child with special needs were very supportive. I don't know how you deal with parents like that. You need to be a team.

I discussed this case with one of the groups I run for adults with Aspergers. They were all in agreement that this outcome did no one with AS any good. It risked putting off well meaning people doing their best in their own time. It also risks making children with AS seen as being too difficult and 'special' in need of expert handling.
They felt that the £42,000 would have been far better spent on some more practical training than satisfying the lawyer parents.
They were in awe of people willing to try to run large groups of youngsters.