Voluntary work, is it worth it?

Why would most people choose not to volunteer? That doesn’t make sense ar all - however there is a certain type of volunteer who thinks everyone should be grateful to them for volunteering and that the rules don’t apply to them and they don’t need training etc etc

She didn’t choose to have her personal details shared by email without her consent did she? I agree about volunteers bring properly trained but people volunteer because they want to and if they want to stop because they are not trained well enough or think following the law doesn’t apply to them, well so be it. I actually think this particular case is an aberration and there are plenty of positive stories of very inclusive scout groups throughout the country.

Indeed- so this mother didn't want her child to be made to feel different- and her actions have put the poor kid all over TV, the Press, the other parents and kids, and the internet.

Bravo that will work (poor kid)

I suppose in the end, people will choose not to volunteer, which is a shame as so many worthwhile organisations rely on volunteers.

I wonder how often you have volunteered maryelizy, or taken trips with 50+ kids abroad or on activity holidays in dangerous terrain???

And yes, no worries- they will just give up. As teachers have done with foreign exchanges and trips- apart from the very expensive ones all organised by specialised companies that take the flack if anything goes wrong- with teachers just 'going along'.

And who will be penalised - our grandkids.

Volunteers choose to volunteer, but it is up to the organisation to train them properly.

I recently walked out of some volunteer work I really enjoyed and, though I say it myself, I was very good at, because of the grossly inadequate help and training provided for me in the year I was with them.

There wasn’t a verdict, there wasn’t a judge, the insurance company paid out - facts, eh, who’d ‘av ‘em? The Scout Association and its sainted volunteers are not given a dispensation from obeying the law. As Cold says, there were some really serious issues about data protection as well. Volunteers choose to volunteer - if they can’t do it properly then they should either give up or improve.

I was very troubled by this suing. Volunteers have sometimes been very stressed to keep an organisation going for a variety of reasons but often they keep organsations like this running for years. It is bad news in my opinion.

MOnica, I agree, I think though that more volunteers will be needed who have special skills.
Just being interested, willing and able won’t be enough.
Let’s hope there will be enough good people willing to give up long hours of their spare time to help organisations keep running.

There is no justication for casting doubt on all volunteering jut because one case went pear shaped.

As an ex-teacher who has taken several children with a variety of Special Needs on residential trips (involving abseiling, campfires, long challenging walks etc) I agree that extra supervision is required. The extra person doesn’t have to stay with that child but could free up another leader to intervene before a potentially difficult situation arose.

But I was quite shocked by the attitude of the parents. I note that in the Telegraph report the mother said
the actions [supervision] would "single Ben out" and that she feared it would make him "feel different."

Well doesn’t putting your autistic son on national television
“single him out” and make him “feel different”?
And suing a voluntary organisation for £42,000 is just irresponsible.

A proportion of the damages was for breach of privacy as the leaders sent an e-mail containing confidential medical information to all of the other parents - this IMHO was a pretty stupid thing to do.

Scouts do a lot more challenging physical activity than Beavers and take more (calculated) risks. The scouts need to understand the risks and dangers, be able to make judgements and sometimes instant obedience and response is necessary in activities like high ropes or white water rafting. Not to respond would put everybody in the raft at risk.
Sometimes I sent my sons off to camp with my fingers crossed but they needed the challenge that Scouting gave them.
If the scout leaders were worried about ensuring everybody's safety then they were right to express their concerns surely and to ask for extra support.
I guess their other choice was to limit the activities for everybody to what would be safe for this lad so that he could be included in everything.

I heard this story on the news this morning, checked it on the BBC website and also read the report in the Daily Telegraph.
I was amazed to hear the verdict; as I understand it from the BBC, (cannot find this morning's report now) the mother sued on the grounds of discrimination, saying her child was no different from the others. However much she may dislike it, if he has a diagnosis of autism, yes he is.
In view of his behaviour during scout activities the association decided he needed extra supervision, for his own safety, and for that of others. He clearly needed one to one when responding to some instructions. They are expected to conduct a risk assessment, and this child posed a risk.
People who run Scouts are volunteers and it is unfair to compare them with teachers dealing with an autistic child in an educational setting. Even then, however much they may dislike it, they do need extra supervision.
School trips are being cancelled because some parents refuse to accept conditions imposed on children deemed to be a risk.
The Scout Association acted in this child, and the group's best interests, and have been punished as a result. The parents were grossly unfair to sue. At the very least they should return the damages.

Activities for Beavers are very different to those of Scouts- who do more outdoor and craft activities, longer stays further away from home, etc, etc.

Same difference as Primary School and Secondary - totally different.

It is very possible to have a dedicated person to keep an eye on that child as part of a small group, without being intrusive. We did that all the time- but there is a cost to that. Who should pay, the other parents? If you do a trip- you count all the costs, and divide by the number of kids (well, when OH and myself took my tutor group on a long YHA week-end every year, we paid for ourselves- our choice).

Other non financial costs too, eg one more vounteer on the bus means one less place for a kid. It would also curtail some acitivities- where the leaders would choose not to do climbing, or fires, or using knives for woodcrafts, etc, etc,.

As said, the parents, with their mindset, would be the first ones to sue if the child got injured, or another child due to non supervision of said child.

Wow, it makes me so cross. No wonder my younger colleagues now just refuse point blank to organise exchanges, or any trips. As for volunteers - well I would stop immediately for sure. So sad.

All this could have been avoided if the Scouts had listened to the parents who had previously informed them of how to deal with the boy's needs. They didn't listen and things went wrong.

As I have already said, the Beavers were able to include him in their activities so why not the Scouts?

Yes Jura, we do agree!

It was settled out of court

Day6 - hurrah, we agree the school environment is totally different to the great outdoors, where knives might be used, fire, very unusual situations, noises, and acitivities- like caving, climbing, etc.

The Scout Group overreacted by stating that he needed a one-to-one, which seems to have been a ploy to stop him attending.

That was the parents view, and the judge obviously agreed with it, but I'd have sided with the Scout leaders. They have to be responsible for all the children who camp and they only have the parents' words for it that their son would have been okay with mere explanations. I imagine they also had to do a risk assessment and a child with special needs would have to be catered for.

maryeliza- I have. And I have been a teacher all my life and taken kids on so many school trips, both in school time and my own time.

'The dispute stemmed from a short episode Ben had at a cub scout camp in 2016, in which he became distressed, trying to run a short distance from the rest of the group after being asked to change into a pair of shoes he couldn't find, and later on he said he did not want to join an egg-and-spoon race because of a phobia of spoons.,

and the answer is NO, you cannot ask volunteers to take children they think they cannot control and therefore can put themsleves, and the others in danger. I am sure the parents would sue the pants of those poor volunteers if the kid run away and got hurt, fell off a cliff, or when caving, or with fire, or from a boat, or into the road, etc.

One of the great memories of my career was taking the risk of taking kids away on YHA trips, or ski trips- whom other staff would have point blank refused- making sure I had an extra helper above the numbers required to keep a special eye on them.

To sue I think was truly disgusting and unfair. And the implications are massive - and likely to deprive 1000s of kids from such volunteer activities. Volunteers have to be able to set conditions and limits- or just stop.

And schools too - the finance is just not there to be able to pay for extra staff to take every child with a problem. This sadly applies to my grandson, who is severely allergic to eggs- and one of his parents has to go on every trip and cook separately for him- the only way to be safe.

Read the full story

Stop preaching. I have and so have others. Viewpoints about volunteered leadership and parental responsibility are pertinent.

Day6, many volunteers already manage to be inclusive of people with special needs so I don't know why this one group was different. The story on the BBC tells us that the child had previously attended Beavers without a problem.

He needed very little in the way of support anyway, just a little time spent on explanation. The Scout Group overreacted by stating that he needed a one-to-one, which seems to have been a ploy to stop him attending.

As I said, I admire volunteers. I've done enough of it in my time to know it can be a thankless task. In this case, I think the volunteers weren't being well-supported themselves. The Scout Association themselves have said they got it wrong this time.

Instead, the Scouts wanted him to have a one-to-one, which he didn't want or need and which was oppressive. He didn't need one-to-one at school so why would he need it at Scouts?

Because the structure of a school day is more rigid than being outdoors, at night, sleeping in a tent, with no mod cons, with lots of noise and activities around a blazing fire? There are also a limited number of (unpaid) adults available to ensure ALL the children are safe, aware and happy.

www.lawcentres.org.uk/policy/news/news/law-centre-wants-scout-association-to-learn-from-autistic-boy-s-discrimination

The Scouts don’t seem to be in learning mode - this case is from 2014