Comrade Corbychev's Cock-Ups

Corbyn's latest promise ! He will insulate 4 million homes .

Wonder where

Off message perhaps ?

All this has nothing to do with your he who pays the piper calls the tune remark. It is the principle of the remark that worries me so deeply.

Sorry grandad1943 but I think the Guardian has a more balanced view on Coyne that a union activist ,

anniebach, Coyne was investigated by the General Executive Committee and suspended from his duties. McCluskey was instructed to carry out that action on behalf of that executive.

Anyway now definitely off to lunch.

M0nica, in response to your posting at 11:32 today (29/04/18) as I have stated I believe the situation in regard to the funding of the Labour party in entirely different to that of the conservative party.

Elections are held at all levels within Britain's largest trade unions and any member can stand in those ballots for election to office in their Branch, District or Regional committee's or even the General Executive posions and that of General Secretary itself are elected

It is those elected delegates that make decisions on all matters that come under the jurisdiction of those bodies on behalf of all members that are affected. The affiliation contribution to the Labour party is handled by said General Executive and is also debated and balloted on at the biannual delegate conference, the highest policy making body in any union.

So, in the case of the Labour party, unions by the democracy of their membership make the decision to fund the party and in that secure various seats on bodies within the Labour party including the General Executive Council. The foregoing is perfectly acceptable in my view as all that make decisions on that funding are elected and that funding is under constant review by the delegate conference. Therefore as stated in previous postings, the Labour party is incorporated as the political wing of the wider Labour movement in the country.

To union members who state "my union does not speak for me" I would state in that case stand for election to any of the above bodies and fight for change from within. Nothing was ever accomplished by standing on the sidelines and whining on social media forums such as this. Any change has to be fought for from within by those that wish to see those changes

As regards the funding of the Conservative party, then I know little about that matter other than what all can read on the media. However, I do not believe that in any product I have purchased, the seller has never asked me if I wished for a percentage of that cost should be passed on to the Conservative party. Therefore, those donations it would seem to me are not democratically accountable and therefore should not be made until those accountability changes are made in any organization.

Anyway we are now off to have Sunday lunch at one of our three daughters homes and then watch the Snooker or later the football. So, no more posting from me today in all likelihood.
Have a great day all

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/20/unite-official-gerard-coyne-who-lost-to-len-mccluskey-in-leadership-race-sacked

So Coyne was investigated by a man who had been a member of the communist party for years

Business get their money ultimately by selling goods to customers. So as we contribute to the funds that fund the Conservative party, it is reasonable that they who pay the piper there call the tune and feel no need to ballot their customers on every issue either.
Hedge fund managers, bankers and finance companies who contribute a major part of Conservative party funding, as far as I know, sell nothing to the general public.

Thank you grandad1943, amazing what one can learn in a chat isn't it, but it also means one only hears one side , this is why I suggested talking to grassroots members from all walks of life, gives one a more balanced view

Grandad43 When I am on a course, my breaks are spent going to the loo, getting a coffee and thinking and digesting the content of the session that has just ended. When leading groups, you can add preparing and checking my next presentation. In neither case do I want to have deep conversations on completely different topics. It suggests my mind is not on the course.

You still have not answered my question. Oh, yes, you gave me the history of trade unionism and how it funds the Labour party but that is irrelevant. All parties need to get funding from somewhere. Labour gets it from the Unions, the Conservatives from business.

But what you said in an earlier post was he who pays the piper calls the tune and I want to know whether you really mean that and does your acceptance of this principle extend to other parties, Also it means that ordinary Labour supporters have no say in policy because they do not pay enough. The unions pay and their leaders call the tune. You say they represent their union members. Do they ballot them on every single policy issue? I doubt it.

Continuing that analogy. Business get their money ultimately by selling goods to customers. So as we contribute to the funds that fund the Conservative party, it is reasonable that they who pay the piper there call the tune and feel no need to ballot their customers on every issue either.

Anniebach, in response to your posting today (29/04/18 @ 08:28) in regard to my learning as much as I taught on trade union education courses, then that is very much the case.

Research has demonstrated that educational attention span begins to decline following twenty to twenty five minutes of intense concentration, especially among older people. In the foregoing, industrial safety can be a heavy subject to learn and in the recent course I was involved in those attending where on full-time week long instruction hoping to achieve higher IOSH accreditation should they pass.

In the above, a pause is called approximately every thirty minutes during tuition time and I always encourage discussion on other subjects of interest during that period. That very offten brings up conditions and problems within the Union as the vast majority of those attending courses at that level are long-standing shop floor trade union reps employed in companies with union recognition.

Therefore, in that time I do very often learn much of interest in regards to the "skullduggery" etc which goes on in the organization much to my interest and enjoyment.

There is also times when guest speakers address the course. I was able to take myself off to the restaurant at the Unite regional office in Bristol during the recent course and there learned much on the Coyne problem while chatting to one of the district sectaries. I thought it apt that while we were having that discussion, the chief fire officer for Avon was addressing the educational course on the "value of dynamic risk assessments to his officers in emergencies".

Perhaps Coyne should have listened to some of that prior to his actions that caused his suspension during the general secretary ballot (LOL).

Do wish Corbyn would stop dithering. No one should share a platform with anyone found guilty of anti semetism , yet he shared a platform with IRA members but seems didn't speak to them so didn't know IRA members

Tories received £840,000 from Russian oligarchs before the election and Tory Party Chairman Brandon Lewis received £30,000 personally. Yet apparently the Russian Bots are Labour supporters? What a very strange world.

sunseeker well said. 13% of union members voted at the last UNITE leadership , the 87% who didn't vote must have thought the same as your father .

So the .labour party is only a wing of a union movement , explains why the Unions controlled labour governments in the seventies and will do again if Corbyn wins the next election. Explains why Lord Robens kept his job after being responsible for the murder of 144 people, 116 were children

I don't pretend to understand politics the way many posting here obviously do, however, I grew up in a Labour supporting household, my father was a union representative and actively campaigned for the Labour party during elections. My father told me that many workers joined unions (in some cases they had no choice if they wanted to work in a certain trade) but did not support the political ambitions of the union leaders and had little faith in the leaders of the Labour party. To say that the unions are representing the views of their members is disingenuous - they may represent the views of some of their members but, I would suggest, not all of them.

M0nica, in response to your posting today (29/04/18 @ 07:10) in regard to Political party funding, then I feel there are large differences in the situation in the Labour Party and the Conservative party.

The Labour Party was born out of of the Trade Union movement in the early decades of the last century. It was formed when the union leaders of that time realized that many of the ambitions of their members (better housing health care etc) could not be achieved by shop floor power alone, however strong that became. In the above, the trade unions set up and financed that fledgling Labour party as it was seen as part of the overall Labour movement.

Over the years that structure has continued to exist and many of our greatest statesmen have entered the House of Commons by way of their activity in their trades unions, and in that I would cite Ernest Bevan, Nye Bevan and Clement Atlee to name but three.

Therefore, even today the Labour party should be viewed as a section of the much wider Labour movement in the country funded by them as part of them. Even Tony Blair (try has he may) could not break that link and the party has now been brought back to its close status with the trade unions through the actions of such leaders as the late Bob Crow of the RMT union and following his death Len McCluskey of Unite.

Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the Parliamentary Labour party has wholeheartedly accepted the above and the strength of membership has reflected that since he became leader.

So, M0nica to put it in a nutshell, the Labour Party is the political wing of the overall Labour movement in the country and in that majority funded by its membership. No one has tried to hide that fact in recent years and the wider electorate can accept or reject that as and when they cast their votes.

Just watching Andrew Marr, and the revelations about Russian interference last year to help Corbyn win the election.Many ‘bots’ with English names all busy on social media.Think we had any on here?

Why do Momentum activists need training days before canvassing ? Training in what ?

Grandad1943, sorry but it is amusing, you must surely have learned more than you taught in Bristol ?

Gosh, grandad43 I am awed by your erudition and mastery of the details of Union chicanery.

Would you now like to direct your mind to the questions I asked about your statement he who pays the piper calls the tune?

Apologies Pogs for not replying sooner but have been watching a great day at the Snooker after being in the office this morning.

To take things back to the Coyne and McCluskey situation and the possibility of re-run of the Unite General Secretary Election, from what I am aware of Coyne has been overwhelmingly ostracized within the Union for disclosing information during the ballot period that should have been only available to him as a Reginal Secretary to the wider media.

However, following that Len McCluskey has had problems with the Unite General Executive over the way in which he handled the above Coyne situation when it emerged. Apparently the General Executive Committee agreed that Coyne should be suspended as a Reginal Secretary over the matter, but McCluskey did not carryout that instruction until the conclusion of the Ballot but before the result was declared.

The significance of the above was that it was seen as an attempt by McCluskey to prevent Coyne taking up office if he had been elected General Secretary. In that, rumours had abounded in many regions in the days between the end of the ballot and the declaration that Coyne had won.

Therefore, I feel that should the certification officer declare the previous ballet invalid, then many activists (who are the ones that vote in these elections) may feel "a plague on both your Houses" (Coyne and McCluskey) and vote for Jerry Hicks should he decide to stand in any fresh election.

However, Hicks is very hard left as compared to McCluskey and there would be those on this forum who may well feel better the devil we knew should he become General Secretary of Unite now once again one and a half million strong.

I would emphasize that the above is what I was informed of in conversation while carrying out an Industrial Safety coarse in the Unite Regional office in Bristol two weeks ago. So,I stand to be corrected should anyone have better or more recent information.

Don't hold your breath, POGS, I still have outstanding questions from yesterday.

It seems to be the policy of those on the left to ignore all the direct questions. It is continuing the line followed by Grandad43's predecessors.

I asked for my previous post to be removed as I had a slight concern but I just want to say it was not personal to any poster it was more to do with a link.

My point was Grandad

As for Jerry Hicks he too had a problem with McCluskey and a lot of people may not know his name.

Jerry Hicks , like Gerrard Coyne, challenged Len McCluskeys win in the 2013 Unite Election and it was thrown out by the Certification Officer.

The challenge centred on claims of supposed 'phantom votes' cast, but this was overwhelmingly dismissed by the Certification Office who ruled against Mr Hicks on the substantial issues he had complained about. "

Controversy could be said to follow McCluskey .

I am happy to be corrected if I am mistaken re the Jerry Hicks/McCluskey episode.

I appreciate you are enjoying a day out but if you have time could you give me your 'knowledge' on the question I raised @ 14.04. Thanks.

There is no anti semitism in the Labour Party ? Why has Corbyn apologise for anti semitism in the Labour Party,

Baroness Shami is rather quiet, busy polishing her tiara perhaps