Unions and strikes -a real threat or just a succesful media promotion.

I wish the same Ally, I would be off the telephone and back on the door knocking , pavement pounding as I did for many a year

Anniebach as Jalimal says "lets hope there is some movement afoot" to save the real Labour party. I just can't believe that there isn't.

You mention Anniebach the Electoral College system your example being :"We recently had the female deputy leader election, the candidate who was supported by Unite won over the candidate who gained the most votes."

This attitude that the voter majority does not matter, seems to be everywhere, democracy is under threat. Majority voters will rebel if they continue to be ignored. These anti democratic systems, designed to allow manipulation of the voters are in for a shock if this continues inside and outside the Labour movement, Unions or any other institutions even, that engage in suppressing the majority voter are in for a shock at some point.
I do wish I was younger, twenty years would do!.

I so agree Ally, it shows what we are up against.

I am not going to Tessa’s memorial service, think seeing Corbyn there would cause me to vomit , I am not as brave as those who will go because they loved/admired Tessa so will stomach seeing Corbyn there. I know some who will attend . I hope he isn’t invited .

My view is that there are some things, some human behaviour that is not acceptable, no matter what our politics are, or the degree of those feelings be it moderate to extreme left or right. If we don't condemn unacceptable behaviour as the norm, then we don't set social standards. In this instance not showing respect for a deceased valued Labour MP because she did not support their far left views. This intolerance and arrogance is unacceptable. In their action of disrespect they condemned, and personalised, even in death, another's right to have lived their life on their own terms, even if that was in disagreement with this particular groups stance. How dare they!

Where are we sinking too. That anyone who claims to be a of our society let alone those who claim to be humanitarian, socialist can not condemn the Hampstead and Kilburn Momentum activist disrespect, without hesitation, or the trick, of diverting their condemnation to another topic or person must be seen as contemptible. It is simple, politics aside what happened in Hampstead and Kilburn was shameful.

Jalima, the outcome of the party formed by Shirley Williams and David Owen isn’t forgotten, and competing with this Corbyn party who has the vast sums of money from unions is to be considered . I wish the centre left would break away now, the true Labour Party is dying.

Ally, it seems labour supporters here have conveniently forgotten the wilderness years, it really was a struggle to encourage the many who had left the party because of the rise of the far left to come back, canvassing for the following elections was even harder, asking floating voters to vote Labour, i even got spat at. This time is worse, Momentum are like a creeping fog seeping in everywhere . I will stay with the party depending on the outcome of the Welsh Labour leader’s election. First comes the battle of deciding to change from the electoral college to one member one vote, Unite are naturally fighting to keep the Elecoral College system. We recently had the female deputy leader election, the candidate who was supported by Unite won over the candidate who gained the most votes.

They are certainly taking their time Allygran.
But let us hope that there is a movement afoot.

Anniebach you have been at the "coal face", fighting to maintain the integrity of the grass roots Labour party during Neil Kinnocks time, and now again, as the threat of a far left taking over the Labour movement is back in the form of Momentum, with sadly a far left Labour leader this time round. This is a double jeopardy.

Let us hope that their is someone in the wings who can champion the grassroots Labour movement in the 21st Century as Neil Kinnock did so well in the 20th.

The issues of the London bubble have always blinded Corbyn to what is the real grassroots Labour party in the rest of the Country.

One can only hope that the rest of the country's grassroots members and voters stand strong in their belief, that a far left party will alienate more people than it will support, and choose not to vote Labour at the next General Election. This would be a hard thing to do, but to get a Corbyn far left puppet Government controlled by Momentum and the Trade Unions would put an end to the Labour movement anyway.

Do you think if the LPC can't control Corbyn and Momentum that a split in the Labour party is inevitable?

Sad to read that you too are taking the Momentum flak and considering leaving the party. Try to hang in there. I sense that a 'saviour' will emerge eventually. There are one or two I hope will have the courage and support to step up to the plate. We shall see.

Glad a Corbyn supporter has spoken out against the behaviour of the rabble in Hamdstead and Kilbern , gives a glimmer of hope

Of course that sort of behaviour is wrong, but it is rather unfair to assume that those of us who support the policies of the present Labour Party, support that sort of behaviour, because we don't.
We are not "pigs" we just don't agree with the right wing of the party.

Regarding Jacob Reese Mogg, so he has good manners, that is not enough to make his views likeable.

I doubt it niggly, there have been complaints against the anti semitism which is rife there, nothing been done,

After the failed tribute to Tessa they all stood for a minute silence for Gaza . Seems they are not capable of doing both.

Proof again when I said not a labour socialist party. I don’t think I can stay a member much longer, will hang on untill the Welsh Labour leader is elected. Momentum are hard at it here.

I'm glad to hear that annie. Perhaps a reprimand will be considered appropriate!!!

A formal complaint has been made regarding the behaviour of the rabble who mocked Tessa .

Seems some party members were distressed, some will leave the party.

niggly, a cruel illness, Tessa suffered badly in her last days , even children suffer this

Thank you annie?

niggly I am sorry your cousin died from this x

I am shocked that Grandad1943 uses something allegedly done by JRM as a defence for the rabble in Hampstead and Kilburn. Proof of my claims that Corbynites will defend the most disgusting antics from fellow militants .

That's as maybe Grandad, I think a lot of us would be surprised and perhaps appalled at where our hard earned cash and company/state pension pots are invested, even you!! I can only presume that you approve at the disgusting behaviour by Hampstead and Kilburn. If that's the case, then all I can do is feel sorry for you!
annie my much loved cousin died of melanoma related brain tumour, and his fear and suffering were just awful. Perhaps if these odious people were to understand what a dreadful disease this is, they would be less vocal in their personal condemnation of anyone. I won't be holding my breath you understand!!!

Jeremy Corbyn , a truely disgusting and loathsome person and leader of the Labour Party

Not one Tory supporter here has condemned Jacob Rees mogg for making financial gain out of a missile attack on an airliner in which all on board died.

Not one Corbyn supporter here has condemned the behaviour of those Hampstead and Kilburn members .

Tessa was a good woman, a caring woman, loyal to the true Labour Party.

The Conservative party allows into its parliamentary ranks those who for financial gain will allow a company they part own and manage to break international sanctions.

Those international sanctions were brought in against Russia following a missile attack on an airliner flying over the Ukraine in which all aboard perished including many children.

For any person to use the above tragedy for financial gain is truly despicable.

In the office today, but I will respond to your post of 23:55 yesterday Allygran1 much later today if I get the time as I find the time as I find that an interesting posting

Other than that, Jacob Rees-Mogg a truly disgusting and loathsome person and senior member of the Tory party.

Ally, I was at the conference when Neil gave that speech , I have posted it from uTube , it has been mocked by the far left here and the most oft question was - how did he fail to win an election? The fact that Neil and to fight back from the disastrous 1983 elections, free the party from Militants is ignored .

And the fact that whilst grassroots members were working their socks off to help in the fight back was mocked too.

Whilst we were fighting back for fourteen years Corbyn was running a campaign from his own home to bring the militants back into the party . What Labour Party member would want Hatton and his ilk back?

Those fourteen years were tough, and Corbyn was fighting against us.

The information about Tessa Jowell and Hampstead and Kilburn is disgraceful. I posted on another thread, asking why given this governments austerity approach, the Opposition remains distrusted by many ordinary voters. This incident tells the story imo.

The lack of respect for the late Tessa Jowell by the far left members of Hampstead and Kilburn constituency Labour party, indicates just how much intolerance there is of people who don't share their exact views.

Tessa Jowell a deceased member of their own Parliamentary Labour group, who spent here life, attempting to make other peoples lives better. Just one of the many things that Tessa will be remembered for, apart from the good work and the high regard in which she is held by her constituents, was her commitment to the concept and development of Sure Start. It was a triumph.

This far right aggressive, volatile and vociferous response as part of their gross intolerance, abuse and disrespect for other views is militant violence.

This was a particularly distasteful example of disrespect for the deceased, that shames those involved and the Labour party that is "rearing" this sort of far left violent intolerant culture.

Grandad your post indicates that you support a Corbyn far left puppet Government with Momentum and the Trade Unions pulling the strings. Have I got that right?

The Parliamentary Labour group you believe "is an integral part of the wider Labour movement in the UK". The indications are, that far from being integrated with the grassroots Labour movement or relating to the "wider Labour movement" outside of London, the Parliamentary Labour group is divided and not all leaning to the far left. The concerns of the middle to left Labour Parliamentary group about the far left's attempted take over of the Party is not a secret.
The discontent in the wider Labour movement or grassroots Labour voters outside of the London bubble is there though being suppressed by the far left militant activist group Momentum, along with it seems now the The Unions. It may be the Unions have sensed a main chance, perhaps seeing power through a Corbynist far left Government as their last chance to run the country through the backdoor.

I realise that you say you "do not support all that is being stated and proposed in the Labour party at present". However what is concerning is the impression given that as one, the Parliamentary Labour group and the overall Labour movement in the country are united, and it is their united "views that are in prominence once again for better or for worse".

From what you say, this would indicate, that the entire Labour movement, inside and outside of Parliament acting as one, are far left Corbynist supporters, intent on getting into power as a Puppet Government, controlled by the Trade Unions and Momentum activist Trotsky/Marxist group.

The attitude of, "for better or for worse", is a terrifying concept in this scenario. Indicating that power at any cost is all that matters. The attitude that we might get a communist Puppet Government, but Labour will be in power. This assumes that there are no moderate to left Labour voters, that they are all far left wing, or, if that is not true, the moderate to left wing will just go along with it, vote for Corbyn at a future General Election, to get into power, whilst holding the notion that it can be sorted out once in Government, when the far left can be controlled or got rid of. If this is the right interpretation of what you have said, then in my view Labour will collapse or divide. I see that this might happen anyway. I see no evidence that the Labour movement is acting as one as you suggest. Many, many Labour people recognise that the far left is not how they see socialism in the UK.

Interestingly whilst reading your post and responding, I saw shades of "Militant" and the 1985 stand that Neil Kinnock and the grass roots Labour movement took against "Militant". Kinnock's speech at the Labour party conference in Bournmouth was judged outstanding by his own and other political party's. Here it is:
At the Labour party conference in Bournmouth in 1985 Kinnock stood up for the grass roots Labour voter and membership.

The report says: ‘He [Neil Kinnock]then built up to an attack on the Militant Tendency;
" I shall tell you again what you know. Because you are from the people, because you are of the people, because you live with the same realities as everybody else lives with, implausible promises don’t win victories. I’ll tell you what happens with impossible promises. You start with far-fetched resolutions. They are then pickled into a rigid dogma, a code, and you go through the years sticking to that, out-dated, mis-placed, irrelevant to the real needs, and you end up in the grotesque chaos of a Labour council hiring taxis to scuttle round a city handing out redundancy notices to its own workers.

As Kinnock spoke, Hatton shouted “Liar!” from the back of the hall, prompting the Labour leader to address him directly:

“I’m telling you, and you’ll listen – you can’t play politics with people’s jobs and with people’s services or with their homes.”

Eric Heffer walked off the stage in disgust, apparently with tears in his eyes. Immediately after, the Labour establishment rallied behind Kinnock. Healey called it a speech that “will change the centre of gravity within the movement” while Barbara Castle exerted that it was the best leaders speech she had heard in 25 years.
In her memoir Fighting All The Way, Castle went one further, claiming that it was “the most courageous and effective speech i have ever heard a politician make.

tidesofhistory.wordpress.com/2017/10/01/kinnock/

All that is needed now is one unafraid voice to speak for the real Labour movement, the one that is outside of the London bubble. There are a few MP's waiting in the wings, will they have the courage that Kinnock had, to stand/lead for the Labour party of the grass roots in the face of a far left coup -de -etat. Let's hope so, the "better" is unthinkable and the 'worse' is unimaginable as far as I can estimate.