Why has a woman never led the Labour Party?

I also think it is something to do with timing. Tony Blair was leader for so long, there was no need for a leadership election, and then Gordon Brown took over.

I don't think Clare Short would have stood a chance because she took a stand against Page 3. There are still even today (!) men and women(!) dismissing female nudity in the workplace as "a bit of fun" it was much worse in those days.

As for unions, I think they do what is best for the majority of their members, even if sometimes some of their members feel unfairly treated, the union looks at the bigger picture.

Companies lobbying govt are doing their best for their shareholders.
Both groups look at things from their particular angle, which is not always in the interests of the country as a whole.

No it doesn't lemongrove really some people do draw weird and unjustified conclusions.

trisher, unless you too consider yourself the union expert you would know I was not referring to you,

As to why I was ever a party member , you will have to wonder. Unions do not always act in the interests of their members, you can tell yourself this is so, but it is not. I hold a balanced view you do not.

trisher you say that women have not been chosen because they have ‘strong principles, do not toe the Party line and are not Machiavellian enough’
So, given that those attributes fit Corbyn like a glove, it appears that a man can be chosen, but not a woman.
Actually, it makes a lot more sense to say that the LP have a sexism problem.

Unions Annie are controlled by and act in the interests of their members, ordinary working people. Wealthy individuals and companies donating are acting out of self interest and profit making. Now if you can't see that those are totally different I do wonder why you were ever a Labour party member.

I didn't mention money Annie the '22 committee deals in power .
As to all these conclusions drawn by people about what I actually said some need a lesson in logic and in drawing conclusions. So just because I think the most important female labour MPs have principles, do not toe the line and are not machaevellian you cannot draw the conclusion that therefore every other leader doesn't, does or is. It's false logic. Although I can think of leaders of both parties that have had one or more of those characteristics.
As for the long diatribe about Conservative voters Day6 what has that to do with rich MPs? Around 45% of Conservative MPs went to private schools, so some must have money.

My claim that labour sells power to unions was dismissed as unsubstantiated rubbish by the forums union expert who then claimed the 22 committee would take money , no proof supplied only something about JRM and the Russians .

If labour take money from unions then no difference to other parties taking money from wealthy diners, except wealthy donors do not openly back candidates for positions, unions do.

I'd have to agree that I think being married to Ed Balls damaged Yvette's chances, as he's not very popular. I was working on Tom Watson's deputy campaign at the time and it was interesting that this was probably one of the most regular comments that people made about any of the leadership and deputy contenders

How I wish Evette was leader, she has all the qualities , strong, compassionate, well educated, experienced, and she has class. No, not working,middle or upper ?, a dignity

Definately Yvette being married to Ed and him losing his seat affected her chances. Andy was too timid in his first attempt so probably tried to make up for it the second time.

I still cringe that I changed my decision on voting near the time and voted for the worse leader ever. Be careful what you wish for certaintly applies to me, ouch.

My view is that Yvette Cooper's leadership campaign at the Hustings was a strong one. Andy Burnham, who I like and who was a good local MP was imo far to macho during the campaign. He strutted the stage talking about "when I'm your Leader" as though the other 3 candidates didn't matter. I heard lots of asides at meetings/hustings from people who suggested Yvette couldn't be leader because she's married to Ed Balls.
There was talk throughout that Leadership campaign suggesting that either Yvette or Andy stood back to allow the other to win.
By the way - where's the evidence that MT 'asked" Dennis to pay for her legal training? I'd always believed that in marriage everything was jointly owned.

I think there have been a good few Labour women such as Tessa, Mo Mowlam etc who would have made very good leaders. I think sometimes they are held back because of family responsibility but also I think some of it is timing, meaning who else are they up against for the role. For example, I don't think there were any other real contenders when May was elected leader. Yvette Cooper had a chance recently but I don't think she had a very strong leadership campaign however I think she'd have got more votes if Andy Burnham hadn't stood at the same time

Well said Annie.

I imagine there will be many male Labour MPs who cheer on women who are outspoken, strong and not likely to be manipulated. Don't most modern men raise their daughters to know their own minds?

Trisher has unfortunately painted a picture of reactionary male Labour MPs who fear strong women and has used that to suggest these men hold women back, but Conservative women don't face the same challenges or misogyny because they are (without doubt, in her opinion) 'rich'.

?????

The politics of spite? Of envy? Of blasting anyone with money?

So labour leaders, all male, toe the party line, do not have principles and are Machiavellian ? Not true trisher , so not true .

Such a pity a thread started with a good question has sunk into all tories are wealthy, all labour are caring, compassionate , not wealthy . A Tory bashing thread .

Hell,bells, Thornberry and Abbott sent their children to private schools and vote against grammer schools, that’s having principals.

There are faults in all parties, unprincipled in all parties, caring and compassionate in all parties .

What makes Conservative MPs different to others is that in the Conservative party money speaks with a very loud voice

A very out-dated and stereotypical response trisher.

Most ordinary people vote Conservative because they cannot relate to other parties, especially Labour ; they have experienced the loony left, mistrust far left anarchists and would rather feel part of a movement that includes them and every other section of society, not just 'the poor' - which has become Labour's war cry. The 'poor' are the fodder for Labour's campaigns yet the poor will continue to exist. Labour had thirteen years in Government and still people slept on the streets and even then hospitals were stretched to their limits. It's a clever ploy to suggest that only Labour has a conscience and compassion. Look at the propaganda issued by Labour.

At street level, Conservatives tend to be very ordinary working people without riches to their name, or a privileged background. But labour supporters have a duty to propagate the myth that all live in higher echelons, and have money and a vested interest in big business.

It is a myth. The days of toffs versus ordinary people has long gone, and many ordinary people do not relate to Labour's Marxism.

However, watch how Labour hard left supporters will tell you Tories are rich and uncaring.

What's the expression - 'get with the times' ?

Look at those standing for election to local government, which is where many MPs begin their careers. I do not belong to any political party, preferring to see what each offers and I'd rather vote for a poor Conservative than a ranting hard-left anarchist.

In the middle there are people who want to think they matter too.

trisher

That's interesting. So Emily Thornberry does have a wealthy family according to you. Certainly not the impression she likes to give the public I wonder why.

You live and learn .

As far your saying :-

" I suspect that the reason there has not been a female leader of the Labour party is because they have strong principles, do not toe the party line and are not machiavellian enough.
Oh and that some seem to die too early."

Are you now implying to become a Leader of the Labour Party you have to be 'unprincipled' , 'toe the party line' and 'Machiavellian'?

Is there now in your opinion a difference not only between Conservative /Labour female MP's but also between male/female Labour Party MP's.?

And have only stood for the leadership in the last few years , trying to recall if a woman stood for leader before Yvette , can’t think of one. Am sure there wasn’t one.

Thornberry may claim to have had no money as a child-many divorcees don't, that doesn't mean there is no family money.
I fully agree that she has built a succesful career for herself and didn't ask her husband to fund her legal training (unlike MT)
What makes Conservative MPs different to others is that in the Conservative party money speaks with a very loud voice (and actually it's not just female MPs)
I suspect that the reason there has not been a female leader of the Labour party is because they have strong principles, do not toe the party line and are not machiavellian enough.
Oh and that some seem to die too early.

So the 22 committee is no different to the NEC? Yet the members of the 22 committee are MP’s voted in by the voter ,not so the NEC.

trisher

I am confused as Thornberry did the rounds on t.v expressing her upbringing quite openly some time back.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/emily-thornberry-so-poor-as-a-child-cats-were-put-down-islington-south-labour-a7964846.html

I do not give a tuppenny stuff about her background but 'IF' ever she became Labour Leader/PM I sure as hell would not say it was because of her husbands wealth or hers.

The question was:-

' Is it your opinion women only gain high office because they have wealthy husbands in all walks of life or just when it comes to female Conservative MP's?

If your answer is no what makes female Conservative MP's different to any other female?'

trisher since you were the one who brought this subject up in the first place, why do you think the LP have never chosen a woman to lead the Party?

As far as wealth goes POGS and Day6 I think having it certainly does have influence on the lives of many MPs of all parties. As undoubtedly does having legal training. Emily Thornberry's wealth is not her husband's much of it is hers and her family's.
Do I think the 1922 committee can be bought? Yes I do. Not necessarily with money but certainly power granted if their agenda is promoted. To cross them is to invite removal as IDS found out. I wonder how many letters have been collected about TM so far?

There has never been a woman leader of the Labour Party because the party has always been male dominated , nothing to do with wealth . No point in saying how many women are in the shadow cabinet in 2018, there are far more women standing for parliment now than there was in the eighties. Thinking back to the female MP’s who have been named in this thread ,who in 2018 compares with Mo,
Clare Short, Barbara Castle , there are strong women now but all on the back benches .

You think I’m patronising you Day6 ???

Is it your opinion women only gain high office because they have wealthy husbands in all walks of life or just when it comes to female Conservative MP's?

If your answer is no what makes female Conservative MP's different to any other female?

Thank you POGS. I share your concern.

I find it incredible that women here are belittling other women who've risen to the top in politics because their political allegiance is different from theirs.

Talented and driven women are capable of reaching high office without the support of men, whether they are married or not, and whether they have a wealthy background or not.

I made my way to the top of my profession without a husband, as single mother and I did it through hard work, ambition,sacrifice and being thought pretty good at what I did. To suggest Conservative female MPs are rising through the ranks because of their husbands bank account is demeaning to them and to all women.

Labour MP Lady Nugent, aka Emily Thornberry, has a rich and titled old man yet she isn't leading the Labour Party. Why?