Why has a woman never led the Labour Party?

Old Meg Oh dear Day6 you really cannot see past your own prejudices can you?

The question raised was So is it perhaps that Labour women are much more outspoken, do not always toe the party line, and will not be puppets?

You can patronise all you like Old Meg. I am flabbergasted that it has been suggested in this day and age, by a women poster, that female Conservative politicians are more acceptable as leaders because they are compliant, toe the line and are puppets - for men, presumably.

It's not a political question really, is it? It's a sneering observation that Conservative women aren't as strong, and that is a sweeping generalisation and offensive to all women politicians.

It also suggests that men in the Labour Party are keeping women back, that they are too headstrong, outspoken and should know their place. If that is the case we can only assume male Labour MPs are a nasty lot trying to 'keep them in their place'.

My reply has nothing t do with prejudice, it's to do with the way women are perceived. I didn't suggest Labour women were "much more outspoken, do not always toe the party line, and will not be puppets" - the OP did. Then asked why their hadn't been a female leader of the Labour Party.

If Labour women are strong (like most women politicians) one has to wonder if their 'bolshiness' and strength frightens Labour men. If it does, it would suggest misogyny is rife within the Labour Party and women are being kept down.

Women should be worried.

trisher et all.

Is it your opinion women only gain high office because they have wealthy husbands in all walks of life or just when it comes to female Conservative MP's?

If your answer is no what makes female Conservative MP's different to any other female?

trisher

' If you can find a female labour MP with an affluent husband POGS you could ask such question, '
--

Are you of the opinion all female Labour MP's have no wealth either on their own part or by marriage.? This scenario does not exist because that does not happen in the Labour Party?

I do not believe it has any bearing on their ability to perform as an MP or Leader of a political party hence I said if that was indeed my opinion. " I would
would quite rightly be slated for making such a crass comment."

anniebach, what ridiculous unsubstantiated statement in the above.

And labour sell power to the unions

Pogs and that the reaction I was looking for ..NOBODY ever questioned Alex Salmonds childless state ..its been dragged through the newspapers about Nicola Sturgeon and even teresa May ...double standards?

Yes, I would definitely state they can be "bought off". With such members as Jacob Reece Mogg among its members still being involved with defying international sanctions put in place against Russia for personal monetry gain, that committe most certainly can be bought off.

Still, with only seventy thousand members nationaly with an average age of seventy one, the Conservative party have to accept whoever you can get as MPs

.trisher you often speak of the 22 committee , are you saying they can be bought off?

If you can find a female labour MP with an affluent husband POGS you could ask such question, However we are talking about 2 Conservative women MPs who both became PMs, who both have very rich husbands. One of whom certainly had her legal training paid for by her husband. It is reasonable to ask if having such a support has furthered both their careers.

If I posted a comment that said a female Labour MP only got to the higher echalon of the party because of her husbands wealth I would quite rightly be slated for making such a crass comment.

If I said a female Labour MP only climbed the ladder in the party because of her background I would quite rightly be slated for making such a politically biased comment.

If I dared to say a female Labour MP rose in the ranks ' by repressing their female-ness ' or ' in my opinion don't have a "normal" female attitude ' I would have been lambasted and quite rightly so.

As for stating ' Alex Salmond didn't have a family either so was able to dedicate his entire political life to his country ' why does that apply to a man not a woman? I really struggle with the hypocrisy of that point of view.

If the Labour Party has not had a female Leader or Prime Minister it is because the Labour Party never chose one and what the Conservative Party or any other Party has done has no bearing on what Labour chose to do.

The decision is Labours to decide .

Actually, there have been quite a few - we must be lagging behind in the UK.

I think NZ had two women PMs previously - Helen Clark and Jenny Shipley.
And, of course, Australia had Julia Gillard.

It's rare in the world as a whole - exceptions Golda Meir, Indira Ghandi, both had children. And now Jacinda Arden in New Zealand (who is currently pregnant.)

Margaret Thatcher had twins, so only one pregnancy. She was married to a wealthy man and could afford to employ whatever domestic help and childcare help she needed. This allowed her to focus on her ambition to be a politician. Her life was completely different to most woman of her time.

I have every sympathy for women like Theresa May and Nicola Sturgeon who may have wanted children but for one reason or other never had them. Because they were childless, they could devote much more time and energy to fulfilling their ambitions, just as a man would. Very few man even in the 21st century, allow fatherhood to stand in the way of ambition, but many women still do.

Thatcher certainty didn’t put children before career

you missed the point Varian I meant that women WITH children would put family above career,Ms Sturgeon only married a few years ago and had a miscarriage early in her position as FM who knows if she would have continued if her pregnancy had gone full term, given her age We are happy that she is FM but sad that her much wanted family didn't happen for her,but then Alex Salmond didn't have a family either so was able to dedicate his entire political life to his country .Usually its not considered if men have children how they will cope with a top job

Quote anniebach [ Fennel, democracy, the tories are voted into power] End Quote

Perhaps if those which "claim" to be supporters and members of the Labour party gained knowledge of its structures and engaged in those to strengthen the movement, the Tories would not be voted into power.

So is it perhaps that Labour women are much more outspoken, do not always toe the party line, and will not be puppets?

Interesting point - because the above describes Jeremy Corbyn exactly - but he is male.
So why are Labour women who display the same traits not considered suitable to be Leader?

There is a bit of a difference between smartening someone up a bit and teaching someone to speak differently, bleach their hair and dress as instructed.

But this has also happened to Jeremy Corbyn - apart from bleaching his hair (it does look much different though) and not having to carry a handbag.

To get back to the thread, Mo Mowlam, Clare Short, Anne Clwydd, Bessie Braddock, Jennie Lee, Margaret Beckett didn’t have children , and these are just a few.

Fennel, democracy, the tories are voted into power

Very true statement in your posting today @ 17:05 Fennel. It is being stated by some in this thread that there are no strong women in the Labour party and that the unions are male dominated.

How then do those stating the above give justification to yhe fact that Jennie Formby became a very senior organiser at national level within the Unite union, and has now been elected to what many see as the most prominent leadership position in the Labour movement as it's General Secretary.

Perhaps they will put that down to her weakness.

That's why I put ' 's around opposition Annie.
But who can provide an effective opposition to the entrenched Tory stranglehold on this country's political system?
They've held the majority for most of the last 200+ years, with only a few breaks eg post war, Blair's compromise etc.

Fennel, you don’t see the Labour shadow cabinet led by Corbyn as oposition to the Tory government ? I don’t

And following on my previous posts, if not for the Unions we would have no 'opposition' to Tory rule.
However divided and weak it might be at the moment.

Quote anniebach today (14/05/18 @ 10:07) [ Oh dear, support for Jennie Formby of UNITE from a union bloke] End Quote

Anniebach as you seem continually to talk of respect on this forum, do you then believe that it is correct to address me as a "union bloke"

Your above Quote came in response to myself informing you and others that Jon Lansmans and Len McCluskey did not "run" the Labour party as you have stated in your post today @ 09:24. The two above persons are members of Labours National Executive Committee on which there are approximately thirty six other members attending each meeting with equal voting status.

In the above it is that Executive which is in place to oversee policies set out and agreed by the Labour Party annual conference.

Therefore anniebach, along with your disrespect (I can think of other words) towards other members of this forum, you seem to have little if any true grasp of the working structures of a political party you "claim" to have been a member and subscriber to for fifty years.