Regret it Brexit Part 2

If joining the South is what the majority of the people of NI want then as stated in the Good Friday agreement they can do just that. Ireland should never have been divided in the first place as dividing any country East and West Germany, North and South Korea, is always problematic. If the majority of Scots want to leave the UK, then so be it. Unlike communist countries, we don't hold people against their will, or like the EU make it virtually impossible to leave.

So you're willing to countenance the breakup of the UK to achieve your objective, nn?

How would you feel about the Scots following suit and voting for independence to remain in the EU?

It would appear that the population of NI are leaning far more favourably towards a reunification with the South. If this is the case, eventually as I understand it they will be in a position to have a referendum on the subject. Should this be successful it would surely be the most sensible scenario. NI gets to stay in the EU and have the same abortion rights which is what they want, and for us the issue of the border would be resolved, which is what we want. As NI seem to be unable to form a government and we seem stuck with the the odious DUP it would seem the most obvious and sensible solution if that's what the majority want - fingers crossed!!

The problem with what you say Lemon is that the EU has a set of rules many of which state that to carry out various businesses etc you need to be a number of the EU. The U.K. wishes to continue doing many of the same things as they do now and not belong to the EU - and they seem surprised when the EU point this fact out to them and they (the U.K.) start saying basically that the EU is not playing fair.
Ownership and registering of companies is a big part of this and so explains why so many are opening part of their businesses in an EU country. It is companies such as British Airways which will have a big decision to make -a British company with its registered office in another country,
I think the fishing rights will be another interesting subject because many British fishermen sold the rights they received to big foreign companies and since then have just moaned the EU took their fishing rights away.

Why should we have advantages over other members, that isn’t what we are negotiating for.
A negotiation is two parties finding compromises in getting the deal that they want, and that means both sides.
There will be a deal because it’s wanted, not just by us, but by them as well.
On the subject of Boris Johnson, my view is that he should have been given a harmless job such as Culture, not the FO!

My sympathy goes to Theresa May, trying to get a compromise with warring parties and I have no confidence in choosing any result.
I fear a no deal result which will be chaos, have no doubt that will affect everybody and the poor most of all. No deal will mean a border in Ireland and gridlock in Dover, let no one have doubt about that. I was hoping Corbyn had a more realistic proposal but it's just a variation of the Tory proposals.
We are in a very weak negotiating position the EU are not going to give us any advantage over other members, so all they have to do is keep saying no. We either play by their rules or leave and I don't think they really care which, is that different to any other partnership.

Do you think Boris and Davis are hoping to be fired or made to resign so they don’t have to face the consequences of their ( in) actions? As the chickens are coming home to roost and even they can see it’s not panning out brilliantly? I know the loyal Brexit bunch claim that negotiations are going badly because “the EU are making it difficult”, despite the fact that the EU have made their position clear all along and it is our government who have lurched and wavered. ( and anyone who points that out is criticised as unpatriotic! )
Quote of the week: Nigel Farage whined last week: “I never said it would be a beneficial thing to leave and everyone would be better off." nuff said.

I agree with Nicola Sturgeon, Boris is a national embarrassment and totally unfit for public office, the man is a liar and a cheat. He must think the public are really stupid with his stunt of the 'secret recording'. Teresa May is now having to deal with his behaviour as she arrives at the G7 summit, which was probably his plan to undermine her. He is a truly nasty piece of work, and I say this irrespective of his stance on Brexit. At least I was sincere in the way I voted, unlike him.

So Michel Barnier has this afternoon rejected the time limiting of the backstop arrangement and rejected the idea of a Customs Union extending to mainland U.K.
Barnier and the EU want a border down the Irish Sea. Which of course is totally unacceptable to the DUP.

What do Leave voters think of a border in the Irish Sea? It might mean Northern Ireland splits from U.K.

varian and Gill ????????

I had no difficulty deciding in 2016 that I should vote Remain as I was aware of the many advantages of EU membership and could foresee the utter chaos that would follow a Leave vote. I am sure that there are others on GN who were equally convinced that they ought to vote Leave.

However. Boris Johnson had no idea whether he should support Leave or Remain. He prepared two different speeches anouncing his support for each camp. He had absolutely no concern for what was in the best interests of the UK, only what he saw as giving him the best chance of promotion. I don't know whether he spun a coin or whether his old school rivalry with David Cameron was the deciding factor, but he opted for Leave.

He is completely devoid of morals or principles, but since making that move he has cast himself as the arch-brexiteer, who will ensure that we are driven over the cliff because he thinks by undermining Theresa May at every opportunity his time will come.

I don't always agree with Nicola Sturgeon but I endorse the comments she made this morning that this man is totally unfit for high office. He is a disgrace and a national embarrassment.

Agreed maryeliza, the day after the referendum result BJ did look terrified, rather an 'oh sh*t, what have I done?'. He just wanted to be on the opposite side to his friend and enemy Cameron and got it spectacularly wrong. I do not trust him at all, even less than I trust most politicians. I think he is going to make a break for it and bid for power, probably as the saviour of the remainers, a road to Brussels conversion so to speak. He is slippery, devious and the bumbling jovial chappy image fools nobody now. He is a proven liar, to his employer (The Times), his party leader ( Michael Howard) and his wife when he had his numerous affairs and fathered a child by one of his mistresses. A man with this lack of moral compass will have no compunction about lying to the electorate.

Watched the first 10 minutes or so of the first episode but turned if off it was just too*mostlyharmless*.

I can't recall BJ getting much right! I suspect BJ thinks if Trump can be president then he can be prime minister. This is what he said: “Imagine Trump doing Brexit. He’d go in bloody hard… there’d be all sorts of breakdowns, all sorts of chaos. Everyone would think he’d gone mad. But actually you might get somewhere. It’s a very, very good thought"

I just don’t know what to think of BJ or what his intentions are. I agree that that was no ‘leak’. I really do think he overestimates himself however. I still recall all the scenes on TV the day after the referendum when he looked absolutely terrified at what had happened. He got that spectacularly wrong didn’t he do why should he be getting anything right now?

GillT, I suspect you are right. Do you think it's all part of his leadership bid? He does seem to be taking lessons from the Trump approach ?

Most of the French I know well enough to say anything to me think the Brits are totally mad and cannot understand it at all - they are sympathetic to the position we find ourselves in.

Boris Johnson knew exactly what he was doing when he stood up at that dinner and was 'secretly recorded'. Just watching Victoria Derbyshire programme on in background and a former political advisor just said that when you are in government, a minister, you are never off the record. He is not a fool, he is dangerous, pushing May to the limits of her tolerance, making her look weak. The EU negotiators undoubtedly are aware of this fiasco, we must be the laughing stock.

Shouldn’t the government know what we should be doing?

So you are not a new GN member Crystaltipps ?
I thought you sounded familiar.
What the heck are Torykippers, is that Daily Mirror speak?
So many forum members seem to know exactly what we should not be doing regarding Brexit....any know what we should be doing?
The LP are just as divided over Brexit as the Tories btw.

How the hell is Johnson still a minister? His latest views, quoted in the Guardian:

"Johnson’s views were laid bare in the secret recording in which he criticised the significance the Irish border issue has taken on in the negotiations with Brussels.

“It’s so small and there are so few firms that actually use that border regularly, it’s just beyond belief that we’re allowing the tail to wag the dog in this way. We’re allowing the whole of our agenda to be dictated by this folly,” he said."

The reality? According to data from Transport Infrastructure Ireland, the public agency responsible for national road and public transport networks, an average of some 6,500 HGVs pass over the invisible frontier in NI every single day. That is a huge volume of registered commercial movement by road and quite separate from the daily passage of goods and materials by people privately transporting items north and south.

Is he totally ignorant or totally dishonest? In my view, it's probably both.

Has anyone been watching Channel 4 documentary “Carry on Brussels”?
Eighteen out of 73 British MEPs are UKIP.
The UKIP members are an embarrassment. They take their salaries and expenses but deliberately sabotage serious debates all the time.
What on Earth must the Europeans think of the British?

Yes it was the Times. Wednesday. Thanks MD. I think most people who aren’t torykippers can see the negotiations aren’t going that well with all the cabinet infighting and divisions, talks of Max Fac, backstops, alignments and the like. Seems a new fudge everyday.

Googling the phrase brings up several results.This is one, but paywalled.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/davis-u-turn-leaves-brexiteers-irish-border-plan-in-crisis-zvm2v792n

crystaltipps Thu 07-Jun-18 21:53:53

Can you give a link to the cut and paste? Or where the piece came from. Thanks