Regret it Brexit Part 2

For every expert in something or other who ‘really understands the implications of Brexit’ ( from a Remain point of view) there is another expert ( from the Leave point of view’) who also ‘understands the implications of Brexit’and his/her view is the opposite.
‘You pays yer money and yer takes yer choice’

On the World at One programme on Radio 4 today an economist from the European Centre for Political Economy talked about the relative weakness oif the UK negotiating position. He said "is it sensible to say to someone "If you don't do what I say I will blow me brains out. You may get possible a flesh wound from a passing bullet?" "

This section starts about fourteen minutes into the programme and is of course followed be an ultra brexiteer saying "no problem"

The previous section of the programme featured Catherine Barnard , Professor of European law at the University of Cambridge. Her dire warnings should be heeded. She is one of the very few experts who really understand the implications of leaving the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b85lqx

niggly
I don't know who hates the eu more, me or you

And the EU were more than happy to let them and colluded whole heartedly with this adjustment! Greece wasn't a booming economy that's for certain, but it had its own way of doing things and was a beautiful if a slow lane country with charming people which should have been properly vetted before the EU even considered it membership. What happened to Greece was just devastating width the EU aiding and abetting, until they pounced!

Greece was hardly a booming economy before it joined the EU and it was quite happy to adjust the books so they could join. The Greek Govt of the time were well aware of what they were doing.

dares, not dates!!

The EU is a closed shop! Made millions out of Greece?! and in doing so reduced its people to years of poverty and despair, and will do the same to any other country inside the block and beyond, that dates to cross their path. How wicked is that! That people want to belong to and actually support an outfit that behaves like this without any thought to the utter devastation they are causing ordinary folk is beyond belief. I suppose I'm alright Jack, and to hell with everyone else' is the order of the day!

those disaster capitalist know what they are doing to fill their massive pockets to bursting...... whilst ordinary people pay the price in a 1,000 of ways, it's all so tragicly simple
I hope your including the Germans in that statement. They have made hundreds of billions out of the Greek debt

That post was to Grandad 1943

If only 'pragmatism' was being used by ALL since the Referendum took place both here and in the EU. I remain of the opinion I held from the outcome of the Referendum there will only be a case of politics trumping economics and I am even more of the opinion the EU is a Protectionist Market.

Maybe in the coming months we shall see some move toward ' pragmatism ' but I am not holding my breath.

I voted to leave the EU, as did many who live in the North of England. I think the shock of the election was that we did not vote as the South expected us to do. I like many are losing patience with the politicians though, but if there was to be another referendum tomorrow I would still vote to leave.

Anyway like millions of others round the world I am off to watch the football.

Let's see if Russia can cause another upset against Spain.

POGS, yes many of the unions were anti-European Union in the past. However, as the complexity of leaving the EU has become apparent the various trade sectors within unions such as Unite have realised the threat to jobs it represents and are now surveying their membership in regard to a change of policy.

It's called pragmatism POGS, something the unions have to carry out all the time when dealing with employers.

Grandad 1943

I asked you this question before but I don't think you replied, apologies if you did.

The Lib Dems were once anti European Union , we all know that. I thought the Unions were at one time anti the European Union and back benchers like Tony Benn, Corbyn, Skinner were their voice in parliament. Am I mistaken?

I am no fan of Dennis Skinner but at least ' he ' has remained a conviction politician and not changed his tune, albeit at the cost of spiteful comment from those who oppose his right to hold his opinion.

Perhaps there could be 2 parties one called New Militant Tendency/Socialist Party and the other New Labour/democratic party.

They do say history repeats itself .

How will this "New Labour Party" finance its existence? The Unite Union is surveying its membership in regards to Brexit and preliminary results from that survey demonstrate that three out of every four members now believe that Brexit will have a detrimental effect on their employment.

If that result is confirmed Unite with other Unions will without doubt put enormous pressure on Corbyn and those around him to take a far firmer stance against Brexit.

Should he not, then a change of leader would be very much on the cards I believe. Who would stand with any possibility of being elected would be then the big question. One thing in that would be certain, it will be none of the old Blair/Brown era generation as they are now seen as not true labour people in any way.

Jennie Formby the recently elected General Secretary of the Labour movement has stated that it is her ambition to have the parliamentary Labour party brought back into close alliance with the trades unions and that in my opinion is exactly how it should be. One movement containing one party.

It is the members of those trades unions that have financed the Labour Party through "thick and thin" for more than one hundred years. Therefore it is right that their voices should be heard at a time when many of their jobs are now severely at risk through Brexit.

To those of the old guard Labour Party that took those union members money and gave back nothing for it so many years, I would say "move on the gravy train has dried up for you" as it should have done immediately following the Iraq war and the banking crisis.

Career politicians with no real experience of life outside of Parliament are not what is wanted in Labour. People with wide experience of working in all industries is what is required in parliament for the future of this country.

Brexit supporters now seem to have retreated to a position of having their "heads buried in the sand". They wish to ignore the warnings from business even when it is backed up by statistics such as a 50% reduction in vehicle production forward investment. In the foregoing, they also state that the general public are not aware of all that is "going on in the background".

To the above, I would state, that the British public is only too well aware of what is going on in both the background and foreground as senior cabinet ministers insist on informing all and sundry exactly what the rows in the government are and their own position in those rows.

In short, we have a government in compleat disarray over Brexit and in that for over two years have been unable to put forward any coherent policy for Britains withdraw to the EU negotiators.

In the above, the most fervent Brexitiers state that we should "just walk away" and crash out of the EU with a hard Brexit. These people ignore the fact that such action would put hundreds of thousands of jobs at severe risk in the UK and also these same people wish to ignore another fact that there is no majority in the House of Commons for such action.

While proposing the above many wealthy Tories in that Parliament who were at the forefront of the Brexit campaign are moving their money and investments offshore. At the same, time these people are still telling the rest of the British public to jump off the financial cliff and hope somehow to have a soft landing though not knowing how that could possibly come about.

Let us all face it, this whole situation has been brought about by deep seated splits in the Tory party that brought down the John Major Government and which David Cameron thought he could resolve with a referendum that he could not lose. The morning following that referendum result, Cameron ran away leaving Britain in the position it finds itself now, a laughing stock in the eyes of the world.

To me this story is yet another pointer to show how much control and sovereignty the UK has lost .

We have been so used to being controlled by EU law and diktats we have lost sight of how our independence to provide , fend for ourselves outside of the EU actually is showing.

Whether or not 'any' or 'none' of the predicaments raised over the past 2 years since the decision by a Democratic vote took place to exitthe European Union it has certainly opened our eyes to the fact we are in a sort of Stockholme Syndrome politically and economically.

I see it reported today that EU airports have been advised to make plans for a no deal Brexit - it which case there can be no flights between U.K. and Europe as certificates issued by the EU for flights, maintenance etc will no longer be valid. Not sure who will be issuing these certificates post Brexit - i have not seen that anywhere.

It took a while for many to understand how and why David D and others could possibly be so clueless and totally out of their depth... but it does seem now that it was a deliberate ploy... let the clock run out on any kind of deal... deliberate aim rather than incompetence. Rees Mogg’s clan can in the meantime discuss freely and behind the front show, how much they can sell to America, and how many rights, welfare, environment standards, NHS, etc, etc. they can scrap. One of the most lucrative forms of financing the few, to th detriment of the population, is ‘Disaster Capitalism’ ... massive sums can be acquired VERY fast selling ne buying currencies and businesses in a disaster or crisis. Thos disaster Capitalists know what they are doing to fill their massive pockets to bursting... whilst ordinary people pay the price, in a 1000 of ways. It is all so tragically simple.

the reality is now dawning... re Russian money being
pumped in the Leave Machine... and that the Cabinet is desperately allowing time to run out, by pretend incompetence, to opt for no deal...

Those of us living in Europe will be seriously affected in so many ways, financially, re right to permanent residence or move to other country, health care, pensions, traveling with our dogs (may seem silly to some, but it would cause so much heartache and massive costs and inconvenience) and so much more. I am so grateful that we both have dual citizenship, and our children nd grandchildren too.

? (modest smile )
I does me best Ally

Of course T May would have been in a stronger position had she run a better campaign in the GE, but let’s be honest,
The EU negotiators are doing their damn best to show other countries why they shouldn't also try and leave.
In the end, if the EU want our money they are going to have to make compromises and so are we.
Worth it to be shot of them for the future.

lemongrove, your patience and courtesy is outstanding.

It’s not optimism so much as pragmatism and realism.
Just reading the papers with sensational stories plumped up about Cabinet infighting and various people shouting ‘OMG nothing is happening yet!’ Is bound to make you stressed and exhausted.
Wait until it does happen is sound advice, you will sleep better.
It was always going to be a protracted business ( the negotiations) with both sides wanting different things, something as big as this cannot be rushed.

oh yes, I would be very interested. Living in limbo is very stressful and exhausting, depressing even. Your optimism in the face of this utter and total shambles is amazing indeed.
Just look at what is going on in the Cabinet, never mind Brexit and beyond.