Regret it Brexit Part 2

Well I'd "admit to voting leave" varian but what a ridiculous suggestion. Should people who don't have children pay reduced taxes as some of their money goes to education? Should those with private health care and no intentions of using the NHS also make a reduced contribution?

"Why should the rest of us suffer" that is what is wrong with this country and has been exhibited more than ever since the referendum the 'them and us' mentality.

This is our country. Our's, our children's and grandchildren's futures are what matters and that's what we should be coming together to work for.

So, if heaven forbid the vote to leave is overturned, we stay within the EU and member countries economies nose dive, would you as a remainer step forward, admit to how you voted and pay additional taxes. After all, "why should the rest of us suffer".

If we leave the EU and the economy takes a further nosedive and taxes have to be raised, it would be really good to tax the leavers. Why should the rest of us suffer??? I wonder how many would come forward and admit to voting leave if they were going to have to pay?

I just don't understand why these Brexiters are recommending setting up businesses in the EU (Lord Ashcroft), moving investment out of the UK (John Redwood) or setting up EU based offices (J Rees-Mogg)

Here's Lord Ashcroft:

www.conservativehome.com/platform/2018/06/lord-ashcroft-special-report-malta-makes-a-strong-case-to-host-the-eu-outposts-of-british-companies-after-brexit.html

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1012266772907642886

If they were Remainers I suspect that they would be accused of doing down the UK... As it is, they want to leave the EU but they seem to be making sure that they personally don't actually suffer any ill effects. Traitors?

I agree,*Fennel*. James O'Brien sometimes goes over the top and doesn't give his callers enough time to reply, but I do agree with almost everything he says.

Lazigirl wrote -
"people don't want to listen to "experts" anymore, and no one wants to believe boring stuff like "evidence" nowadays, if it doesn't chime with their own views."
A few weeks ago we listened to an LBC broadcast where James O'Brien challenged a caller who had a fixed 'belief' that he couldn't justify with evidence. I think J O'B went too far, he got quite worked up himself, but the poor caller had no idea what he was getting at.

Britain’s chief financial watchdog has warned that contracts worth trillions of pounds between UK and European Union banks remain at risk of collapse following Brexit, after Brussels’ failure to implement protective legislation.

In a warning to EU officials that time is running out before next March to devise rules for EU banks, the Bank of England’s financial policy committee (FPC) said £29tn worth of contracts could be declared void.

Derivatives contracts, which provide banks and corporations with protection from interest rate rises, could come to an end without fresh legislation from the UK and EU, the committee said in its latest quarterly health check on Britain’s financial services industry.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/27/brexit-bank-contracts-worth-trillions-at-risk-says-finance-watchdog

You are right Varian that some economists and many business people did in fact point out the negative effects of leaving the EU, and in a poll 80% of CBI Members wanted to Remain. I just wish individual Companies that people can relate to, had made a bigger noise about it, but you are probably also right that people don't want to listen to "experts" anymore, and no one wants to believe boring stuff like "evidence" nowadays, if it doesn't chime with their own views.

Lazigirl thinks it's a pity that many of these concerns weren't flagged up by major businesses and manufacturers prior to the referendum.

These issues were flagged up by many business people and economists before the referendum but were dismissed by the right-wing tabloids as this mythical "project fear".

Of course many of the people who issued the warnings were experts and Mr Gove told us all that "Brtish people have had enough of experts"

Absolutely Lazigirl!! or even several months ago when negotiations started in earnest!! Why now?!! Project fear? Just another desperate attempt by remain to scupper brexit ?T Blair and co? Who knows, but that's how lots of people will see it!!

No doubt their problems are in some part due to the change in shopping habits, but the Chair of JL says that the uncertainty, and possible disruption in trade caused by an uncertain Brexit is affecting confidence in spending, and also will affect importing fresh produce and goods. He says it is important for businesses to speak out about their concerns. I think it's a pity that many of these concerns weren't flagged up by major businesses and manufacturers prior to the referendum.

John Lewis's problems go far deeper than an uncertain brexit! Of course it will be used for and latched on to for all sorts of woes by all sorts of people, when in fact there are many other reasons to consider for their difficulties!

I think we are giving more time to BJ than he deserves. If I was in his constituency I wouldn't be impressed with his self serving behaviour over the recent vote, and I suspect many erstwhile supporters are becoming disenchanted. I see that John Lewis is the latest business to express concern about a hard Brexit.

What we joined all those years ago was the Common Market not the EU! It was a trading block nothing more, (the clue is in the name!) for seven countries in western europe. At the time we had no idea what the real purpose of this trade arrangement was as of course we were lied to! No surprise now, but it would have been then! Hard to believe I know, hard to believe how naive we were!! We thought it was such a good idea! If I'd known then what I know now, I wouldn't have entertained voting to stay! It's an enormous disappointment, so for me the sooner we get away from Europe's version of the USSR with the same bully boy tactics to smaller weaker (satellite) states, the better.

Brexit will cost Britain £72 billion in lost economic activity annually, according to an analysis of government figures. Leaving the EU is already dragging down the British economy. The UK is now growing more slowly than Japan or Italy.

uk.businessinsider.com/the-economic-cost-of-brexit-in-gdp-2017-11

Most of the population find huge numbers difficult. This number represents more than £1000 pa for every man, woman and child. Would it make a difference to the angry leavers if the figure was ten times as much? I think probably not. They still want to believe the "brexit bonus" lies peddled by the Express, Sun, DM, and quite disgracefully, even by Theresa May.

Whether or not you were against the EU before the U.K. joined things have moved on and many many things are difficult to unravel or go back on. That is the position the U.K. finds itself in now. Difficult for everyone.

Talking of Tony Benn.

There were back bench MP's such as the current Leader of the Labour Party who wholeheartedly agreed with Benns views on the European Union . They stood on their principles and voted against most EU legislation brought before Parliament.

What happened?

Grandad 1943

Am I correct in thinking the Unions were anti the European Union over many years but have changed their tune too?

It is the case that both Labour and Conservative parties have divisions over the subject of the UK leaving the European Union and no matter how much spin and political propaganda/shenanigans are spoken or written that is the inevitable outcome of such a decision.

UBS survey of 600 companies spells out Brexit "dividend":
- 35% of companies plan to reduce UK investment post-Brexit
- 41% plan to move a large amount of capacity out of UK
- 42% plan to shift capacity to euro zone

ps I think that was Austin Mitchell who introduced him - someone mentioned AM recently in another thread.

I admired Tony Benn, and this speech also made me rethink:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWnpbEMMsNw
Although things have changed so much since then.

fennel
You say you are having second thoughts.
If anything will make up your mind, this video will do it.
I don't know if your on Facebook but join ( and then cancel if you want)
In the search bar put: Brexit Breaking News + CORRUPTION IN THE EU.
I thought I knew a great deal Re what's wrong with the eu, but this is mind blowing.

Fennel
You are right to worry. If people were keeping up with the news coming out of Brussels today, it is serious.
Have you read what the Italians want. They want every country to take their share of migrants. If they don't, Italy is going to open its borders again. The migrants will naturally head towards Austria and everyone knows that the present right wing government got in on an anti immigration ticket.
If the get through Austria they will go straight into the German state of Bavaria. This is the state that could bring Merkel down.
People who know what's happening estimate that there are 80,000 migrants waiting to cross the Mediterranean.

We were occupied centuries ago by the Romans. Vikings and Normans.

Being an occupier of another country and plundering its wealth is nothing to be proud of though really.

occupied not occutied.

Welshwife - but we've never been invaded , occutied for centuries.

Feels very isolationist to me. Not sure if a backwards step is the way to go,moving inclusively forwards seemed to me the better option. Only time & history books will reveal who had the better outlook & judgement.