Inquiry Demanded into Islamaphobia in the Conservative Party.

How right you both are Maryeliza and Iam.

As was the case with my very lovely friend, who just happened to be of Indian origin. In reality she was as British/English as any one of us.

I think some people who have any one of a range of prejudices have the nous to avoid saying eg ‘you old bag’ but treat you as an ‘old bag’ anyway. There are many subtle non verbal forms that racism/ sexism/ ageism can take.

Joelsnan you ask the question about bad manners being mistaken for prejudice. That is an interesting view. I suppose that if the action or comment refers to your ethnicity, religion or culture in a derogatory way then it is prejudice. If it's bad language without reference to any of the other personal things above then it is probably bad manners.
I recall experienceing ageism for the first time some years ago, when I felt quite young actually. A man of about 30 with a female companion parked in a four x four both doors open, the woman reading and the man stood outside with a cigar, very "respectable" looking, how wrong can one be.

They were on a supermarket car park that was full, so the two doors blocked two spaces. I was asked to get out to ask if they could close the door whilst we got the car into the space beside their vehicle.

Not only did I get a mouth full, with expletives but added onto that was "you old bag". That infuriated me more than any of the other foul mouthed abuse. That made it ageist and probably denoted his attitude to older people, or was it just to me...These things, as your post points out Joelsnan, are difficult to pin down, unless we know it is a repetitive attitude to all in a particular group, then I suppose it is not prejudice, it is bad manners. I suppose we know prejudice when we see it. It is more than the odd comment out of place.

Joelsnan Kaffaarphobia yes it should be raised as a real issue. It is exactly the same as Islamaphobia and should be recognised. The fact that we have not had a word to use (until now) does not mean the prejudice against non Muslims does not exist in Islam. Nor does this prejudice always take the form of extreme radicalisation activity either. It is very much a two way street sadly.

I agree Oldwoman

Joelsnan - my Indian friend was from Leicester. I don't think that counts as the North, or does it. She was a professional, as were her parents and siblings. It wasn't southern reserve-v- northern lack of polite boundaries. It was racism, horrible, disgusting racism. I was there and it was clear.

Iam64 My point was that racism is not confined to the white population. My DH and I experienced racism and prejudice from both communities.

Iam64 The attitude of those diners at the 'posh' restaurant may not have been attributable to race prejudice. Northern folk are very used to chatting with strangers and 'up north' the folk tend to reciprocate. Try this 'darn sarth' are you frequently get the 'why are you speaking to me' look and the turn away. Or were they English speakers? They may have been rich foreign tourists. Are some too quick to attribute bad manners to prejudices.

Apologies if my comment about being white and not poor is offensive. My experience of racism has been when I've been when non white friends, or observed directed at neighbours. I feel sure that my next door neighbour would have been racist and/or refused to speak to me if I, or any of my family, hadn't been white.

Old woman, I seem to be specialising in not being clear. My post about not having been the subject of racism should have made clear that I believe I’ve been protected by the fact I’m not poor and I’m white.
I saw racism first hand for the first time about forty years ago. I was in a posh restaurant where the evening meal as an excellent xcellent buffet. I was with a work colleague and close friend. She made a friendly comment to a group of other guests. They cut her dead, looked down their noses and turned away. She told me it happened frequently in upmarket, wealthy countryside areas. She was of Goan Indian origin , a Catholic whose family were thrown out of Uganda but Idi Armin. I’ve subsequently been present with a number of friends who aren’t white, and seen first hand the abuse they’ve been subjected to.

I hope no longer Oldwoman, people can be cruel , some from stupidity, some from choice , some from fear, and some who get a kick out of being cruel.

Iam64 I am also a white British woman who lived in an ethnically mixed area - as I have mentioned before I was married to an immigrant. Unlike you I have experienced racism from both white and black communities - you would be amazed at some of the things which have been said to me.

Interesting bmacca and much as everyone thought on here.

I know people want to move on from discussion of child sexual abuse, but I just thought this information may be useful.
A report by Quilliam, called ‘Group Based Child Sexual Exploitation: Dissecting Grooming Gangs’, notes how many of the gangs had operated in North of England towns and cities.
The report says CEOP, an official government body, identifies two types of group-based child sexual exploitation offenders.

Type 1 offenders were those that targeted their victims based on their vulnerability (roughly equivalent of grooming gangs), whereas Type 2 offenders target children as a result of a specific sexual interest in children (roughly equivalent of paedophile rings).

CEOP found that 75% of Type 1 offenders were of Asian ethnicity, whereas 100% of Type 2 offenders were white.

Since 2011, groups of men have been prosecuted for organised sexgrooming crimes against hundreds of girls in Rochdale, Rotherham, Oxford, Telford, Leeds, Birmingham, Norwich, Burnley, High Wycombe, Leicester, Dewsbury, Middlesbrough, Peterborough, Bristol, Halifax and Newcastle.

In only two of those cases were the men not of South Asian heritage. Of all the victims, only three were not white teenage girls.

I think Anniebach it is because it is not limited to criticism of a faith, but becomes prejudice or hatred of all Muslims which is what makes it racist. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word means "Intense dislike or fear of Islam, esp. as a political force; hostility or prejudice towards Muslims"

I can understand racism Iam, been a victim of it, but I question is criticism of a faith racist

As a white British woman living in an ethnically mixed area, I have never experienced racism. I have observed racism from members of the white British community towards black and ethnic minority people. The police Facebook post about a hate crime that left a black African woman in icu was inundated with racist comments after two white people were arrested. The gist of the comments was that arrests wouldn’t have been so quick if the victim had been white and the assailants black

Suppose I am being stupid but Islam is not a race, why is criticism of Islam racist but criticism of Christianity not ?

I wonder why when anyone highlights prejudice directed against the majority population by any minority group this is immediately jumped on as right wing racism (or whatever it's called). Whilst equality of recognition and treatment should be the norm, are the concerns of those who have resided within this country longest not being heard and addressed and should there be a political inquiry into this?
Should the cry of Kefiraphobia be raised?

I don’t want to continue on this thread, using child abuse as political point scoring has distressed me. I still remember the North Wales abuse cases , horrific .

The issue of CSE and child sexual abuse is so complex, we don't need false statements being made in an attempt to suggest the type of abuse perpetrated by gangs in Rotherham, Oxford, Rochdale etc etc is taking place by organised groups of white men targeting Asian girls. Nonsense. Groups of like minded men will find "easier" prey boys and girls.

Thank you Iam, I thought it didn’t happen but gave the poster the benefit of the doubt and hadn’t read the post so thought I should check.

Annie, that's because it doesn't exist.

I failed to find it Chewbacca

Jalimall108, you are quite correct of course. I just googled the topic.

One of the issues on this sort of forum is that we know so little about each other really. What we do gleen is attitudes, political stance, something about types of work, age, gender, if someone has a short fuse or is patient, has a gang mentality, or is stubborn, probably we pick up a bit about strength of character, and I have found kindness, common sense and intelligence in abundance.

What we don't know is religious background or cultural influences that are brought into play and manifest themselves in attitudes. So what is appalling to us, with the stereotyping of women or blatant machismo might be born of religious belief or cultural environment. So it's not easy to distinguish between male chauvinism, machismo or something else.

Would we view female stereotyping and machismo differently if it was cultural or religious or both, rather than straight forward male chauvinism- not sure. I like to think I would still find it unacceptable, though slightly more understandable.