so, when will you be starting stockpiling I wonder?

I feel that it has become essential that some form of certainty has to be brought to the Brexit situation and quickly. Whatever has gone on in the past in regards to Britain's relations with the EU is now "water under the bridge", and we are where we are and we have to go forward from here as a country.

I am someone who voted remain in the referendum but like many, I feel that the UK is now spiralling towards "no deal" Brexit which if the country is not prepared adequately for will have catastrophic repercussions for not just the economy but also for social order within the UK.

I believe that at the very minimum having a customs agreement with the EU will be essential to Britain on leaving Europe. However, that will only be forthcoming if the UK agrees to free movement of labour in regard to EU workers coming to the UK. I feel the insistence on that free movement by the European Union is not that they wish to make leaving difficult for Britain, but that movement is one of the four freedoms that the entire European Union is based upon, with the others being the free movement of goods, capital and services.

Therefore, the European Union cannot compromise on a customs agreement for Britain without the free movement of labour, just as the UK cannot compromise on not accepting that free movement being that immigration played such a large part in the referendum campaign agenda of both sides.

The above I feel has set the UK on the road to "crashing out" of the EU which seems to be a situation that has gone unrecognised within the country since the morning the referendum result was declared. In that, Britain has built up close economic ties with the European Union in its over forty years of membership. That situation is especially prevalent in the manufacturing and the transport industries which has given rise to forecasts of severe job losses along with transport infrastructure failure to which the government seems to be unable to give any reassurance by way of rebutting those forecasts.

In the past few days, media reports have spoken of the plans for the government to declare a state of emergency which would be required for the military to assist the transport industry in the event of a crisis. We also have seen in the media plans given under the freedom of information act that set out the requirements the local, district and county councils have in hand in the event of civil unrest due to Brexit.

We have also witnessed in media reports and in threads such as this the first reports of people looking to protect themselves in the event of transport failure(s) by stocking up on preserved foods etc. Criticising such action will make no difference as when the certainties we have long known are certainties no more, people will react as they see fit oblivious to what anyone else may say.

However, what we have not seen in all the above is any real leadership in the country from ether of the two main political parties. Far from even attempting to provide such leadership our politicians on all sides take a long holiday that will not see the House of Commons back in full session until almost October. Many including myself see that as totally disgusting in the face of a peacetime crisis which is seen as unmatched in Britain since the second world war.

I believe what we are witnessing in Britain is the total failure of our Democracy with little sign the situation is likely to improve as we approach Brexit now only eight months away.

Young Australians like coming over here and working in bars.

It is also our experience that young, local, unemployed Australians are reluctant to do this work - or are not much use if they do!

Jalima My theory on them doing those jobs abroad but not in UK is that they do not consider them 'proper jobs'.
They are more than happy to do them whilst traveling as a way to subsidise their gap year.

As for the Aussie situation, it's a rite of passage for the youngsters to travel (have family down under) and see the world.

UK young people/students do not want to pick fruit etc in their holidays, they do not want to work in sausage factory's (inside the factory program). A stigma seems to have grown around certain jobs including serving in restaurants/coffee shops.
I have always found that really interesting, because UK young people/students are quite happy to go to eg Australia to pick their fruit and vegetables, work in their coffee shops/hostels etc.
Australian farmers find it quite difficult to recruit and keep local labour to pick the fruit and vegetables over there.

Why should this be so? It's not because the wages are low - they are not.

The avocado generation
Oh dear, that could be me
I never thought of avocados being unavailable.
Perhaps I could grow some in my conservatory.

It may not just be the "avocado generation" who panic if brexit happens

Joelsnan, POGS I agree with both your posts.

It is not the fault of the imported workers, but the system. UK young people/students do not want to pick fruit etc in their holidays, they do not want to work in sausage factory's (inside the factory program). A stigma seems to have grown around certain jobs including serving in restaurants/coffee shops.

The avocado generation may panic because they cannot get whatever vegetables or fruit they want, when they want it.

Our family try our best to eat seasonally, and look forward to the change in seasons and the change in veggies and fruits, which in turn leads to a variety in meals eaten.

I learned much from that Elegran, thank you

If you have Facebook, here are "three blokes in a pub" (actually three experts who are having a pint) discussing international deliveries in the event of a "no-deal" on Brexit.
www.facebook.com/thatgingerscouser/videos/10156294488945042/?t=217

joelanan
Your post reminded me of the poly tunnel cities in Andalusia. All built along side the motorways where it's non stop to Calais.
If more 'virtual signallers' could see the conditions these people live in they might think twice about getting their strawberries and lollo Rosso on demand.

Quite agree.

POGS
Yes indeed.
Highlighting the way that some rich EU countries have basically contrived to use cheap skilled labour both to the detriment to their own citizens and those of the countries they exploit has been another of my concerns. Yes these countries have received funding to improve infrastructure and build manufacturing depots. But often the infrastructure is roads to carry the cheaper produced goods without raising the real living standards of the producing countries.

Joelsnan

Hi. No I didn't watch it.

I think what some of us have been trying to say for so long is there are pockets of employment , not only in the UK, that has hit the lower paid employment jobs harshly due to the Posted Workers Directive and the repercussions manifested themselves at the time of the Referendum.

I have immigrant friends and acquaintances and a couple of immigrants ( for the purpose of the thread I will call them that ) who have joined our family and they understand the problems and accept the issue and like myself worry it is unsustainable in so many ways.

I also accept alongside the problem of ' some ' companies/ employers who have taken full advantage of the Posted Workers Directive or callously used dubious methods to reduce labour costs in employees wages we also have a big problem in the UK in that we also have a nucleus of people who could work but do not ' choose ' to work and the immigrant who comes to our country to live, work and abide by our laws is a God send .

I know you will agree when I say it is not the fault of the hard working immigrants who choose to live and work in another country to provide for themselves and family but it has been the succession of bad decisions made by the EU Commission/Parliament that has put the politics of a Federal Europe dogma/politics before the basic needs of a country to provide primary for their own people when it comes to jobs , the backbone of a nation.

It is a fact that the UK is in the same boat as other EU countries who are seeing jobs go to other countries and people wonder why there is a rise , a backlash against the EU. In my opinion the EU will be lucky to ride this problem out, I think it will but the day may well dawn when the wealthier EU countries have to deal with the problems the UK has faced up to.

Whether the decision to Leave the EU was a right or wrong decision is not my point, it is understanding how the result came about for other reasons than than the usual xenophobic/racist/unintelligent knew know better .

POGS
Thank you for your posting 31/08/2018 19:52
This concurs exactly with what i have been saying for years. In addition to the importation of cheap labour and those consequences, there has been the decimation of skilled and semi-skilled apprenticeships for our kids (particularly vicationally inclined boys). Why would a company invest in a youngster for three or four years when they can have a plane full of already trained employees from Eastern Europe, yes they were/are concientious workers who will accept minimum wager and very friendly folk too. I knew the EU party would end eventually and foresaw the issues re skills so many years ago, however i suppose 'if the cash machine is giving free money, many will not look to the day it empties, and the profit driven organisations milked the situation for all its worth. My ire lies with these organisations now crying lack of workers...lack of skills. Whose blooming fault is that!
Did you watch the BBC2 programme the Factory from the Heck Sausage factory. It was almost fully manned by workers from Eastern Europe.

Wacky as in asking for trouble.

Why has there been a huge increase in strawberry farms?

We still import them too. Seems a bit wacky to me.

I think that if anyone is worried about being surrounded by floods or being snowed in in the winter, it's sensible to keep a supply of food in the cupboard but panic buying and emptying the shelves because of fears of supply chain difficulties after Brexit is wrong.

Grandad 1943

Thank you for your reply , Tue 31-Jul-18 07:37:07 in response to my post of.Mon 30-Jul-18 23:06:47 but I think you and I may not see eye to eye on the effects the European Posted Workers Directive ., not only the problems in the UK but in other EU countries too----

www.france24.com/en/20171023-eu-luxembourg-french-president-emmanuel-macron-posted-workers-directive-reforms

" 1996 EU directive stipulates that posted workers are entitled to the minimum wage of the host country. Unlike EU citizens who move to another member state to seek employment (and are entitled to the same working conditions as nationals within that country), posted workers do not integrate into the other country’s labour market, and their taxes and social charges are paid in their home nations.

This system has raised the issue of "social dumping", which allows foreign service providers to undercut local competitors because their labour standards are lower. Similarly, rules on bonuses, luncheon vouchers and extra pay (such as the 13th month in France) are not homogenous across Europe."
-
I have tired somewhat of the Brexit threads that have gone around and around in circles over ' the years' and I admit I have not followed the current news on the EUPWD but that is of little consequence because the damage has been done over many years that has seen the undercutting of wages, lack of employment opportunities for local workers, replacement of local workers by EU nationals who were recruited and employed in their home countries to work in another country , ' Social Dumping'.

I dislike the term 'Social Dumping' but I don't deny this is the term used by many who realised the problems for the national workforce and certainly those who lost their jobs / the opportunity to work locally because of it. As I mentioned I have seen this for myself and know of friends and family, some of whom were HGV drivers, who lost long standing jobs or took reduced pay under new contracts. When the PWD came into force the arena changed for many in employment , we knew it/felt it at the time. The years have mellowed feelings somewhat but to a degree that was down to the 'what can you do about it' syndrome.

Putting to one side the bigoted jibes of xenophobic/racist/lack of intellect levelled at Leave voters I think the employment position over the years ' in part ' set the seal for Brexit many years ago in the Labour heartlands who were affected possibly most.

By the way I was born in a Somerset village on the 'rhines' just outside of Street/Glastonbury and we use the term ' 'Moors ' or ' Levels'. usually. I wonder if my relatives are bulk buying in Tesco / Lidl / Morrison's out of worry?

Out of interest my father ' was ' a staunch Union man . He was a Works Convenor/Union Rep for many years but like many the days of the Trotskyist Militant Tendency and the likes of Red Robbo caused him to give it up.

Are there a lot more temporary/seasonal jobs nowadays than there were fifteen years ago?
I think that there are a lot more soft fruit farms than there were 15 years ago, particularly strawberry farms.
Someone who has been on our news a few times has a strawberry farm and she is very concerned about the prospects of labour shortages.

Dijon mustard please MaizieD, if you're shopping.

I will swap for Cretan honey - what's the going rate?

There’s a report in this years Ft but it’s behind a paywall. Things haven’t got better since last year!

I couldn't find anything really up to date but this article is from June 2018:

www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2018/06/20/Seasonal-workers-shortage-who-will-pick-our-fresh-produce

Sorry, the site wouldn't let me copy the text.

Thanks, ct. But that was last year.

I wonder why there is/was a shortage of strawberry (etc) pickers? One of my DDs did this work while she was a student. Are there a lot more temporary/seasonal jobs nowadays than there were fifteen years ago?

Well, I shall raid a few French supermarkets while we're there in a few weeks time. Then no-one can accuse me of depriving UK foodbanks of supplies