Time to put differences aside and help the Greek people

Talking to many Greeks on our visits there it wasn't so much joining the eu that was the problem, it was joining the euro.
The price of everyday necessities went through the roof.
We found a very noticeable increase when we went in 2004 when they hadn't long been using the euro.

Actually I agree with Monica that in the end each country needs a government that will really look after everyone in it - and that's a whole new thread!

We may well have bodies that purport to deal with emergencies but I am not impressed. Eg, the majority of survivors of Grenfell are still in emergency accomodation. And it took days before the Dutch experts were consulted after flooding in the levels. There, too, locals sorted out supplies etc. And so it often goes.

It usually takes days for emergency teams to reach other countries - if we had a recognised EFFICIENT Ministry then all the red tape could be waived for us to go and help. There would be conferences and shared contact details and information and plans for rescue in all sorts of circumstances.

Many countries and areas have very well organised teams but cannot just up and go to another place. The recent exception was the Thai cave rescue in which, as far as I can see, the local coordinators called in international experts very quickly - with wonderful results.

Sorry, grannypauline, I really do not see what the point of your question is.

On rereading I suspect you misunderstood my previous post. It was nothing to do as to whether aid should be given to help countries in trouble. It never occurred to me that anyone would ever think that that should be curtailed.

But no matter how much aid you put into a country to help alleviate its problems, at the end of the day the aid is needed because when governments misgovern it is the population who end up paying the price.

grannypauline we have the Disasters Emergency Committee which deals with charitable donations
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disasters_Emergency_Committee
as well as Ministry for Overseas Aid & Development.

So where, Monica does your aid end: within your family, at the end of your street, the edges of your town or village, your country, Europe, or where?

Whether a population are responsible for the policies of the government they elected or not, they have to deal with the crash that results. Regardless of whether they are innocent victims or deserve it. No one else can.

The Greek people are not to blame for the debt crisis just as UK people in general are not to blame for the financial crash of 2008. It is the greed of business and bankers that causes these crises, together with the connivance of the politicians. Of course the media, which they own, provides a scapegoat. No doubt the Greek press is banging on about the idle English! The effects of “austerity” cuts will inevitably cost lives in all countries so afflicted - wealthy or poorer.

To return to the current horrors: we need a Disasters Ministry not just for ourselves, but also for international aid. This would have the experience, contacts, and finance to assess a disaster and to summon instantly the professionals and others who can deal with it. Hopefully, for example, risk assessments would be carried out properly in advance. For example, an immediate task of such a Ministry would be to insist on the removal of inflammable cladding from Tower blocks. In a catastrophe similar to the Greek and Californian fires the Ministry would have a database of experts and the power and resources to deploy these within hours.

But, as I said Greece was heading for the buffers anyway, EU or no EU and being in the EU actually made the crash easier. If they hadn't been in the EU the IMF would have taken over and they would have made the EU look like pussy cats.

As for making the comparison with UK. That is to insult the Greeks. Our little attempts to overspend are mere baby games compared to what the Greeks went in for.

Well paddyanne paying my tax is on the list of things to do this evening so our government is collecting some tax!
If I’m late I’ll have to pay a fine.
If only the big earners were playing fair.
Still that’s another thread and we’re straying from the tragedy .

I was living in Bulgaria for 4 years before they went into the eu.
It was always understood that the joining of Greece and Bulgaria ( and Romania) was to strengthen the border with Turkey.
I have say that driving into Turkey from Bulgaria after they joined was very different.

paddyann I hope you don’t seriously think the UK is anything like Greece....I expect it’s just another SNP type attack on Westminster from you ( as per usual.)

You are right about that Eloethan .......and that’s the way that the EU acts, sucking countries in to themselves .
Some countries should never have been admitted, a huge mistake, not that they would ever aknowledge it.

Is that then to be seen as a warning to the UK?

Many commentators have stated that the EU was well aware that Greece was not being run in a way which would benefit it from joining the EU. Being forced to replace their currency with euros added to the problem.

Never mind, other countries have greatly profited from Greece's demise. Greece is, to all intents and purposes, now no longer in control of its own economy and resources.

Also they've had more than their share of immigrants this year.
greece.greekreporter.com/category/greek-news/immigration-2/

"It needs to be remembered that the reason Greece had to face austerity was because its government had been utterly reckless in the way it ran its economy for many years. Constantly overspending, failing to collect taxes properly, especially from the wealthy, and relying on borrowing on international markets to fund the excess. "

Monica Sounds very like our own government for the past few years.Doubling the debt,tax relief for the very wealthy ,punishing the poor the sick the disabled for the fiasco caused by bankers who still got their bonuses.Seems the Greeks aren't alone in being bad managers

Thanks for the links, Jura.

janeainsworth, you are absolutely right. It's what Yannis (phew) says so it must be true. It's also what all our Greek contacts and friends say, that the books were fiddled to get them into the EU with everyone happy with that at the time.

Oh, yes, but the Greeks built up the debt in the first place and if they hadn't been in the EU their plight would have been even worse.

Monica I'm sure you understand it all better than I do, but wasn't it the case that the EU allowed Greece to join when actually the country didn't meet the stringent criteria for joining, and then the high value of the German DM mitigated against it? Or something like that?

It needs to be remembered that the reason Greece had to face austerity was because its government had been utterly reckless in the way it ran its economy for many years. Constantly overspending, failing to collect taxes properly, especially from the wealthy, and relying on borrowing on international markets to fund the excess.

When that happens sooner or later the birds come home to roost and the creditors got scared and demand repayment. If Greece had not been in the EU, which offered help, inevitably, under strict terms. and had been left unprotected to face its creditors the state of Greece now would be far worse than it actually is.

Greece is in a mess of its own making. This should not and has not affected the humanitarian help being offered in this current emergency.

It's great that so many countries are helping Greece at the moment - but that is surely as it should be and is what happens in disasters of this nature.

It's a shame that instead of helping Greece in its financial crisis a few years ago, the EU instead imposed the most draconian measures on it. Many people have been made absolutely destitute and the suicide rate has rocketed. I think it is inevitable that the terrible austerity forced on Greece has affected all its public services, including the fire service.

Thank you, I was searching but perhaps nothing had been set up when I looked earlier.

Useful contact information. Thank you, Jura

Well maybe it was just daft- I nevr ever thought it could or would me mis-interpreted. But here you go, what YOU CAN DO:

If you live abroad
Médecins du Monde (Doctors of the World)

Donate here.
Or use your web banking for a wire transfer to their Greek accounts :
National Bank of Greece IBAN: GR27 0110 1410 0000 1412 9611 217 / SWIFT/BIC: ETHNGRAA / Branch: KIFISIA 141
Alpha Bank IBAN: GR06 0140 1990 1990 0200 2002 401 / SWIFT/BIC: CRBAGRAAXXX / Branch: VRILISSION 199
Piraeus Bank IBAN: GR03 0172 0180 0050 1800 5706 640 / SWIFT/BIC: PIRBGRAA / Branch: Platea Attikis 2018 / Account holder address: Sapfois 12, Athens, 10553
Hellenic Red Cross

The Hellenic Red Cross has opened an account where people can donate.
Eurobank IBAN: GR64 0260 2400 0003 1020 1181 388 / SWIFT/BIC: ERBKGRAAXXX / Branch: KORAI 240 / Account holder Address: Likavittou 1, Athens-Kolonaki, 10672
Municipality of Rafina-Pikermi

The municipality of Rafina-Pikermi, one the zones hit hardest by the fires, has announced the opening of an account in collaboration with Piraeus Bank, accepting donations for those wishing to contribute.
Piraeus Bank ΙΒΑΝ: GR20 0172 1860 0051 8609 2291 418 / SWIFT/BIC: PIRBGRAA / Branch: Rafina 2186 / Account holder address: Arathinidon Alon 12, Rafina, 19009
Donate basic items (London)

St Mary’s Hospital — Praed St, Paddington, London W2 1NY — Maternity Ultrasound Reception — Cambridge Wing

Queen Charlotte Hospital , Du Cane Rd, White City, London W12 0HS- Maternity Ultrasound Reception

Collection hours 09.00am- 4.00pm Monday to Friday