Childrens communication skills

Duh yes!!

And has it occurred to you, that perhaps now we’re the ‘old people who don’t know any better?’

Jane10. My dgs was asleep, my dil was using her phone. How was she putting him second to it? And how did it warrant the woman commenting that she ‘shouldn’t be allowed children’??

Nope. I just wrote it off as old people who didn't know any better. My children came first last and always. They still do and are far more important than mobile phones.

And did it not hurt you Jane10? Or irritate you, or make you wish they’d mind their business? Maybe remembering how those unjust criticisms made you feel would serve you well before dishing them out to others.

J10, I suspect I should have added an exclamation mark after 'perfect'. Sorry! I'm grinning now.

Erm I disagree! I well remember older ladies commenting on how I was with my children when they were young. Apparently I spoilt them! The older generation has always criticised the younger one.

Spaniel Nanny, oh how I agree with you. As I read all these judgemental and ignorantly painful criticisms of modern Mums I'm just glad I'm part of that generation where we Mums were all so perfect. Hey ho.

One thing I learned when trying to discover why Finland's education system is so consistently successful is that all teachers are trained to MA level, and are held in the same high regard as lawyers and doctors.
Because of their extensive training they are familiar with many different methods of teaching, and able to apply them if a child is failing in a particular area. All support work is done by trained teachers, working in conjunction with the class teacher.
Difficult to compare two different countries, but I feel high level training and well qualified teachers are an important factor in Finland's success.

Perhaps some teachers are being over zealous in identifying problems with young children's communication skills. My grandson started school when he had just turned 4. I believe he was at some disadvantage compared to much older children who were intellectually and emotionally further along developmentally. He also has an older sister who is quite close in age and who tends to dominate conversations so, in order to get a word in edgeways, he has had to speak very quickly and without too much forethought, often repeating himself to get his thoughts in order. Initially his parents were told that he might require speech therapy but, as he has matured, this no longer seems to be such an issue.

grandtante You don't say which country you live in but there have been a lot of newspaper articles referring to various pieces of research which seem to indicate that Scandinavian education is superior to the education of many other countries. A quick perusal of the topic "Scandinavian Education" yields:

Why Scandinavian Schools are Superior (eSchoolNews)
Can Sweden teach our schools a lesson? (Independent)
Why is the Finnish school system so good? (Left Foot Forward)
How Finnish schools shine (Teacher Network)
Finland's education system best in world (Business Insider)
A lesson in Scandinavian education (BBC News)

Some extracts from an article re the Finnish education system:

"Finland's comprehensive school system has sat at the top of Europe’s rankings for the past 16 years..... There has been intense worldwide interest in how they manage it .....

"Central to early years education in Finland is a “late” start to schooling. .....In all Finnish daycare centres, the emphasis is not on maths, reading or writing but creative play.....

"Indeed the main aim of early years education is not explicitly “education” in the formal sense but the promotion of the health and wellbeing of every child, to help them develop good social habits, learn how to make friends and respect others, dress themselves competently. etc ...

"Importantly, early years care in Finland is designed and funded to ensure high take-up: every child has a legal right to high-quality pre-school care. .....

"Behind its stellar education ranking is a comprehensive social security and public health system that ensures one of the lowest child poverty rates in Europe, and some of the highest levels of wellbeing."

You seem to have a particular issue regarding immigrant children, suggesting that they have had a negative effect on the education system in your country. I have lived in a multi-ethnic area of London for 30 years and it is my experience that immigrant children are usually very quick to learn the language and often do very well at school - as I believe the statistics demonstrate.

I do sometimes feel for today’s mums, we seem to judge them so quickly.

My own dil phoned me rather upset a couple of weeks ago, she had been in the park with my dgs, and an ‘interfering old bat’ as she called her (I wouldn’t have been so kind), had said to her husband, but loudly enough for my dil to hear ‘look at her, sitting on her phone, completely ignoring that baby. They shouldn’t be allowed kids’. Dgs was asleep, dil had popped him in his pram at nap time so she could enjoy a little bit of the sunshine.

She has also been criticised because dgs wasn’t wearing a sun hat (I was with her, he’d thrown it out of the pram into an ice cream that had been dropped on the floor). My personal favourite was when a friend of mine asked was I ‘really ok with my dgs being allowed to drink Diet Coke?’ She’d seen him with a bottle in town. He was 5 months old at the time, and obsessed with bottles. Dil used to often give him her empty one to play with if he became restless when they were out and about.

A 30 second, 2 minute, 5 minute or even 30 minute observation if just a tiny portion of the day, yet people seem to think they can make a credible assessment of parenting based on that. I don’t remember even been judged like that when I was rasing my son. It’s as if a lot people now are almost looking for proof that the current generation of parents aren’t as good as we were.

He's never watched television or videos so whatever is causing these strange accents, it's not that!

Jane10, I recognise the 'old Glaswegian drunk' singing reference - my DGS at 20 months is the same - how can they get their voice so low?! Also, he says a few words with an Australian accent and a few others with an Irish accent - we're intrigued ?

This is specifically to thank NemosMum for that kind and helpful post. I did try to reply privately but there's no evidence that my message was sent so I'm just making doubly sure. I will certainly pursue your advice without delay. Thank you so much. Your effort is greatly appreciated.

I travelled into town on the bus today. There were four lots of grandparents, all talking to their grandchildren.
There were two mums with prams, both on their phones, ignoring the children. It is a rarity to see mums talking to their children in prams or buggies. I am sure this is significant,

Someone I know was worried about her daughters speech as she was due to start school proper, and she was impossible to understand.
The school told her not to worry at all, as a lot of children were the same.

grandtanteJE65 - Denmark has always been an outlier hasn't it? Danish children read fluently later than other Nordic nations because of the lack of correlation between written and spoken language - in particular the oral tradition of "swallowing" the second half of words. It makes it impossible to decode (especially for immigrant children) as the way you would say it bears little relation to the way it is written.

Some other countries - notably in Scandinavia, provide much better support for families, and employment is more flexible. I think some of today's British parents are just exhausted trying to hold it all together - plus there is a relentless focus on buying stuff.

One big difference I noticed in Swedish nurseries was the focus on oral language until the age of 6. There was a philosophy that if children couldn't speak well they would not become good readers. So instead of trying to teach kids to read words that they didn't understand they focussed on developing speaking so that reading became easier.

My mum was a health visitor and I remember her telling me that one young mum told her there was no point in talking to her baby as he couldn't talk yet! She did work hard to explain the mother's role in language development but the level of ignorance is worrying.

My son had a speech problem and I was told that a great many boys have this problem as they develop their hand skills well before their speech skills. It would seem girls do it the other way around. Anyway, this seemed very true in my sons case as he was a dap hand with a screwdriver at just gone 2. He had speech therapy before he went to school and this helped a great deal.

trisher wrote:
"autistic something unrecognised because it is rarer in girls."
Which also applies to language and reading development ie girls become verbal earlier than boys.
Not sure if it still applies. Here's an example of research:
www.speechbuddy.com/blog/speech-disorders/delayed-speech-in-boys/

My boys seem to have married childcare workers so their wives have no excuse of not having experience of young children. I have found this to be a double edged sword. They think they know everything but more often than not, parents have done quite a lot of the work before the babies even get to the nursery and my sons are shot down in flames because they aren't qualified. It drives me mad but I have to keep my mouth shut.

I feel disloyal saying this but it's true. My son and wife are both constantly looking at their phones. My son in particular goes into a zone and doesn't hear anyone when you speak to him if he's reading his phone messages etc. The other day he told off my 6 yr old GD for not responding to him when he arrived home from work while she was watching a cartoon on their Ipad. She cried, he was annoyed, i cldnt say anything. Kettle - black?

That's not a rare situation at all muffinthemoo!

grandtante you reminded me of a dear friend from uni who became a mother at thirty.

The first time she had ever held a baby was her daughter, in the labour ward.

The firstbtime she had ever had any child under 10 in her care was her daughter, when they were discharged from tje maternity unit.

She felt totally overwhelmed. I always remember how upset and frightened she was - she wanted to parent but she just felt overwhelmed by the stuff she didn’t know.