house prices

There are even more extremes than that
Eloethan like Buckingham Palace and a house worth just over £150,000 in a poor borough ( like mine ) The whole thing stinks . No wonder the rich get richer and the poor get poorer .

The council tax system is unfair because there is a relatively low ceiling for even the most expensive properties.

Some extracts from This is Money November 2017:

"In some cases, billionaire oligarchs in West London pay less council tax than owners of modest family homes in Wiltshire.

"Picture a £136.4 million penthouse apartment in London’s Knightsbridge. The service fees alone are more than £3,000 a week and it’s no more than a five-minute walk to the famous Harrods department store.

"Now consider a three-bedroom semi in rural Wiltshire, on the market for £335,000.

"Its driveway can accommodate two cars and it boasts a modest garden. It may seem hard to believe, but the owner of the penthouse - Rinat Akhmetov, who happens to be Ukraine’s richest man - will pay £344 a year less in council tax (at £1,376) than a family moving to Wiltshire (who will pay £1,720).

"This absurd situation is playing out across the country, where wealthy homeowners are asked to contribute less than those in dire financial situations.

"Despite boasting some of the world’s most expensive homes, London boroughs including Westminster and Wandsworth impose some of the UK’s lowest council tax bills. No property in Westminster can be charged more than £1,376.28 a year."

Riverwalk I'm glad you mentioned about shared ownership. I think it is a very bad deal but many people have no option but to buy using this method.

Of course not the same borough Nonnie rich boroughs pay far less than poorer ones. I thought the example I gave of Buck palace and multi £million pound properties in Westminster pay far less than a small home with £154,000 in (say) Nottingham.

Nonnie
15% in 1971!!!
That wasn't a good deal. More like 7.5%.

Good post, Nonnie (6 Aug 18:39).

For reasons set out in this thread, the housing 'market' really militates against the JAMs. The rot started with Thatcher's Right to Buy. The scheme could only have worked equitably if for every council house sold to sitting tenants, that provision were replaced one for one with a new build affordable/council property.

That was never going to happen under MT though was it?

mcem you are right, none of us knows what it is like to be much poorer than we have ever been and none of us knows what it is like to be much better off than we have ever been. I don't think anyone on here has ever suggested they do. Nor was there any need to state it as it is obvious imo.

Gilly I find it very hard to believe that people in expensive houses in the same borough are paying less in council tax than those in cheaper properties, can you give an example or did you mean not in the same borough?

Someone upthread talked about an annual council tax bill in the £1300s, that is quite a low figure imo.

DH did a pools round in 1971 to help us get by when mortgage rates went up to 15% and that was on top of a 1 1/2 hour each way commute to work. We didn't put the heating on because we couldn't afford it and we certainly didn't have holidays. DH stopped going to watch football because of the expense.

I am not suggesting that all young people can do what ours have done but I do think there is a lot to be said for thrift at any age. We have a comfortable retirement which I put entirely down to thrift.

It certainly has petra

Something's gone very wrong somewhere, hasn't it

And complete and utter silence from the OP . Not that I am in the slightest bit surprised.

I’m alright Jack.

Assuming most people on GN are over 55, when we were buying 30, 40 or more years ago we didn't have to resort to Shared Ownership and the like to buy our own homes.

Modest average salaries would support a mortgage to buy a property in London - today that's just not possible. Young buyers can save until kingdom come but they'll never be able to buy as we did.

I can't believe the smugness of some posters.

Council tax is one giant rip off and effects the poorest parts of the country the most . Do you know Buckingham Palace with its 775 rooms is a band H property ? In 2016 BP and many houses in Westminster worth £millions had a council tax bill of around £1375 per year pretty much the same as a house worth around. £154,000 in Nottingham.

This is an extreme example but there are plenty others where the poorest people in the poorest boroughs pay the highest rates of council tax and those in the most expensive properties in the most expensive areas pay the least. Hardly a fair society is is?

Agree completely Eloethan, so many houses that would have been considered to be "starter homes" are now owned by landlords who rent them out for rents that often exceed the cost of a mortgage. Another factor is the cost of council tax. Before Council Tax banding system was introduced in 1991, rates were considerably lower, having been based on the rateable value of the property. High rents, plus dearer council tax, student loans to repay and zero hours contracts.... yup kids today don't know they're born.

There's an awful lot of self-congratulation going on here. Speaking personally, I don't think it was anywhere near as difficult for young people to live comfortable lives and raise a family as it is these days. My husband was a nurse when we first married and I didn't work for the first year or so after our child was born. We were certainly not well off but we had a warm home and good food. I think that would be nigh on impossible these days on a nurse's pay. I think in many ways we were a good deal more fortunate.

For many young people these days life is very hard. If you want to buy a property, it is much more difficult than in the 70s. Rents are also excessive and prevent people from saving towards a deposit for a home. Even for those people who are able to get a mortgage, generally they need two incomes to do so - and there are fewer and fewer people buying their own homes now.

I expect that parents in the 50s and 60s were sometimes deemed to be doing much better than their own parents and subject to the same resentful comments. My grandma and grandpa - who were quite well off - nevertheless did not have a fridge for quite some time - they had a cool larder which was kept under the stairs. My own parents - who had far less money - saw a fridge as a priority, though they didn't own a washing machine for quite a few years. I guess most people now, including me, could not imagine managing without a washing machine.

Obviously, when certain products - like TVs - come on the market they are very expensive and only the better off can afford them but when the majority of people have a phone or a fridge in their home then it is seen as the norm.

One in five homes are now owned by landlords, so some people are doing OK out of the system, but many are not.

House prices have escalated in some areas to such an extent that many young people will never own their own home and in many poorer working class areas (like Tyneside) the wages have stagnated making it equally as hard to get on the housing ladder.

We cannot and should not, even try to compare life in the 1960’s with life today, it’s just ridiculous and no different to trying to compare 1960 to 1900 !

I was born in 1962 and we lived in a one roomed flat with a shared outside loo until I was 8 years old. I probably shouldn’t have been born either according to some as I doubt my parents could afford me. Very different to those who were able to find deposits and pay mortgages.

We bought our first house in 1970. It cost £2,750. We were both working ( nothing special, DH was a lorry driver) and living in a rented flat. It took us a year to save the deposit which was about £150. The trouble started when banks started lending several times annual income and taking both incomes into account. As money became easier to borrow prices escalated beyond anything we could have imagined. Factor in the right to buy which decimated council housing and the rise of the private landlord with a portfolio of overpriced properties and anyone with an average job hasn't got a chance.

Nonnie I completely agree. Good post.

Becoming a home owner was hard, and still is hard, for many, many people - most of our generation included. Times have changed and so in many ways life is easier today, but financially many still struggle - even older people. The OP asked about the unfairness of blaming our generation for the housing situation now.

We are not to blame, nor should we be blamed.

One big advantage we older people had was that the labour market was completely different in our days. We could pick and choose what job we had and many of us changed jobs often . Jobs were more secure too.
So we could be more sure of our income, and what we could afford.
I know this didn't apply to everyone, but to the majority of us.

I'm with you gilly.
It's patently obvious that some posters have absolutely no idea of how folk live outside their own privileged, narrow-minded and ignorant circle!

My DD works much harder than your DD because mine works really really hard and yours only works hard ! Sounds Pathetic doesn’t it ?

This thread is nasty and I honestly can’t believe some of the comments being made.

I’ve sent for the 4 leaf clover seeds to make my own luck. I’ve told my DD to stop whining and take a third job ( with the baby strapped to her ) instead of sitting on her backside , I’ve told my son ( who should never have been born according to some but does cook his own food ) to get rid of his 12 year old van and replace it with a 30 year old van ..... any other suggestions ladies ?

How long ago is it since your daughter bought that first house, JenniferEccles ?
I am guessing that it must have been quite some time ago, as in recent years it hasn't been possible for someone not earning very much to get a mortgage, no matter how hard they are prepared to "struggle".

I don't think there is an all-embracing answer. Everyone comes from different circumstances with different advantages and disadvantages.

In general, I think there are different difficulties. People often say the generation after them has it easier than they did. In some ways "yes" and in some ways "no".

My grown up children are cut from the same cloth as yours Nonnie

When my eldest daughter bought her first tiny house in her early twenties, she wasn't earning much and it was a struggle for her. She worked full time, but said that if need be she would stack shelves in Tesco at night rather than give up her home.

Too many people now prefer to sit on their backsides and whine about their lot, blaming everyone and everything except themselves.

We live in a beautiful country with the most amazing opportunities for those with the will to succeed.

I don't think there is any need for all this argy bargy, it is a different situation now but I don't feel it is fair to blame me for anyone younger who cannot afford a house.

My children have their own homes and reasonable lives but they have worked very, very hard at jobs many could not do and have studied hard for second careers. DS3 works 6 days a week and is also doing an OU degree. He also rides a bike for fitness and does long hard rides in aid of charity. How does he do it all? He is thrifty and good at time management.

My sons have cars they have had for years, they were brought up by parents who didn't keep changing their cars so see no need to park a status symbol on the drive. They cook food from scratch and take their own coffee and food to work but their colleagues all buy it near work. They pass clothes to each other and never pay full price for anything unless it is essential. They don't have huge TVs and they rarely eat out, only on special occasions.

I think it is wrong to take housing in isolation from other living costs. School uniforms are so much cheaper than when mine were at school, furniture is a lot cheaper too. It is easier for a mother to go out to work now that there are plenty of nurseries.

Our neighbour's daughter, a teacher, who is married to a teacher and lives in London has a tiny flat and saves every penny in order to buy their own home at some point. They know they will get there. Another friend's son, an accountant in London, has bought a shared ownership flat so he can get on the housing ladder. Some do manage it but they have to go without to do so.

There have always been people who couldn't afford to buy their own home and there always will be but there are some who expect to have everything without having to go without to afford it.

Surely there is room for all opinions without the unpleasantness?

No sign of the OP I notice.

Sometimes,quite often in fact women have babies and then their lives go belly up.It wasn't planned that way and its not what they want.If you were ledt with two small children and no income because your OH was sleeping with anything with a pulse what would you do? A...give your kids up for adoption? B struggle on with the aid of family and yes benefits...though they aren't enough to live off.
Thats what Social security is meant for ...its not "welfare" an americanism I hate .Nor is it scrounging.Its being there for the security of people who hit hard times.Dont be smug because you never know when it can happen to you.