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Boris and Trump

(70 Posts)
travelsafar Tue 07-Aug-18 11:37:46

I see they are at it again!!! Niqabs and Iran.

These two are like naughty schoolboys always searching for attention even if it is the wrong kind.

Trouble is they can could cause major problems for the world.

caocao Wed 08-Aug-18 10:18:19

I find these outfits deeply disturbing on many levels. You don't know who is beneath them or what their reaction to you is. As a woman I am appalled by what they represent i.e. a culture where women and girls have no worth and are not allowed a life outside the home that is not monitored and controlled by male relations. There are parts of my home city which I will no longer visit but if I pass through, especially in hot weather, I am struck by the juxtaposition of the men in their traditional dress of cool white and the women completely covered in heat absorbing black. I cannot help but feel the roots of this lies in making the garments as uncomfortable as possible to deter the women from wanting to venture outside. There is no religious requirement for this mode of dress and full face coverings should be banned for all sorts of reasons.

Solitaire Wed 08-Aug-18 10:23:08

I was at a theme park with my grandson and there were a number of women? wearing full black burkas with veiled eye slits. They were trying to care for a large number of children whilst the men strolled and talked to each other.
It was a very hot day and I felt mixed emotions for all concerned, anger, sadness, unease etc., as their freedom and interaction with their children and other people at the park that day was severely restricted.
I wondered how much this was choice.
I wouldn't have chatted to them or even smiled as I would with anyone else there that day, because I couldn't see their facial expression.

Solitaire Wed 08-Aug-18 10:25:13

caocao crossed posts ☺ I agree.

Kim19 Wed 08-Aug-18 10:26:09

Jane10, re your second comment. I remember an American lawyer friend of mine making the same comment about Mr. Trump. I cannot tell you how assured and vociferous she was with her heartfelt (and researched!) opinion. Oh yesssss. Think of it (and her) often regarding this.

sarahellenwhitney Wed 08-Aug-18 10:26:33

I would find it disrespectful and would refuse any face to face verbal communication with a person who chose to completely cover their face. However I see no problem or would I have cause to object to a person wearing whatever floats their boat.
What you believe in is your choice and where freedom of speech is concerned one does not do ones self any favours by broadcasting this to the world.

Bamm Wed 08-Aug-18 10:38:15

Boris Johnson was actually defending a woman's right to wear what she likes in public as long as she is not in certain situations where it is necessary and desirable to see the face. His remarks about 'letterbox 'etc were his opinion...are people in public life not allowed an opinion? He didn't link this dress to terrorism or insult their beliefs. There are parts of some cities where some western dress is not acceptable to the Muslim residents and they will come and tell you so in no uncertain terms... on the streets.

hulahoop Wed 08-Aug-18 10:44:50

Motorcyclists have to remove helmets in garages when someone I know queried this were told its so cameras nd staff can see their face same on buses with bus passes so if that's the case then the burka makes a mockery of the law in this country personally I feel it's up to them what they wear but I can see why motorcyclists and bus /saffy in shops get annoyed by it

sarahellenwhitney Wed 08-Aug-18 10:48:43

I go along with your feelings but even though the world has advanced to the,' unimaginable', centuries old tribal and religious practises are, sad, not always a matter of 21C persons choice.

Margs Wed 08-Aug-18 11:19:53

Hear Hear Riverwalk!

We forever hear about how the poor and put-upon Israelis are forever at the mercy of those bullying anti-semitic takes two to tango.

Which is what Mr Corbyn has been reasonably been daring to point out for quite some time.

JenniferEccles Wed 08-Aug-18 11:21:25

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Jayemwhite Wed 08-Aug-18 11:37:13

You need to read the whole article, not just the sound bites snipped out by the BBC. Boris is an extremely clever & erudite man and having read most of his books I would trust his brains. Yes I believe he wanted to stir a wasps’ nest and sure enough, the wasps are buzzing around foolishly. He actually said he cannot understand why anyone would want to walk around dressed like a letterbox - how is that anti-Islam? True Islam does not demand that women dress in shrouds, but if they REALLY want to, they should be able to, which is exactly what Boris said, if you take the time to read his article .

Blinko Wed 08-Aug-18 11:40:00

JMW I wouldn't disagree. But why would anyone want to walk around dressed in blanket covering? Unless to make some kind of statement.

mabon1 Wed 08-Aug-18 11:53:25

Although I'm not a supporter of ladies wearing this type of garment,Boris should not have said what he did.

Barmeyoldbat Wed 08-Aug-18 12:07:29

I am also sick of the fuss made of Labours so called anti-semitism and yet here we have the same sort of thing with our present government but towards the Islam faith. Will a big fuss be created, I doubt it.

Cold Wed 08-Aug-18 12:37:52

It has been well reported that Boris has been meeting with Trump's aide Steve Bannon recently - you can see the agenda to stir up racial division is the same as in the US

Lilyflower Wed 08-Aug-18 13:00:41

To me, the burqua is a garment of exploitation, intimidation, oppression and, indeed, torture, for the wearer. I cannot imagine a case in a free society where anyone would choose to wear a burqua without being brainwashed.

Therefore burquas and face coverings should never be forced on those under the age of majority.

I think it would be safe to assume that, if a young woman were to take up the wearing of an all encompassing, stifling, restrictive garment at the age of eighteen, there would be an element of rubbing others' noses in it.

If the wearing of face covering was a religious duty or a neutral act then men of the culture which advocates them would assume burqas too. But they don't as we all know they are a low status garment originally designed to protect women but which are now used to keep them in their place. A burqua on a man would be a garment of shame and humiliation.

There are a variety of reasons why Islamic and other women cover their faces from a fear of their menfolk to a now radical desire to provoke those perceived as 'other'.

We ought, in a free democracy, to protect women from being oppressed - and remember the burqua goes hand in hand with other horrors such as FGM, cousin marriage and forced marriage. And if faces are covered to provoke and offend then this is not acceptable either and should be stopped by a general ban. We do not tolerate nudity on the street or the bearing of arms for good reasons and we should not tolerate burquas.

To be honest, I don't care if Bojo or Jeremy Corbyn or Ronald Macdonald criticise the burqua as they would be right.

moorlikeit Wed 08-Aug-18 13:07:07

I have read several pieces where Muslim women decry the acceptance by western countries of the burka and niqab etc. in the name of political correctness. They have said loud and clear that they want support for Muslim women to enjoy equal rights and that these garments are all about male dominance and are not required by Islam. It is no good saying that Muslim women have a choice when they are brought up in strict patriarchal households where they are told from an early age that they are whores if they show their hair. It is time to make sure that all women in the UK enjoy the same rights and I would include those women in other male-dominated religious groups as well. I find it completely unacceptable that some women's lives are ruled by Sharia law or similar restrictive laws as in the Jewish Hasidic community. There should only be one set of laws in the UK that protects all its citizens.

patriciageegee Wed 08-Aug-18 13:13:32

What exactly is the purpose of the burqa and niqab? Are they a fashion statement? Are they a religious requirement? Are they a statement of freedom? Are they a symbol of repression? Are they traditional dress for hot climates? Are they representitive of certain cultural values? There is a huge amount of strong feeling regarding this issue both pro and anti with a lot of obfuscation and disingenousness thrown into the mix. Maybe a less inflammatory more meaningful discussion around these garments could take place if someone could give a definitive answer as to the ethos behind the wearing of them.

Patticake123 Wed 08-Aug-18 13:59:07

In my opinion BJ is quite simply working towards becoming the next leader of the Tory party. He has calculated that he will have plenty of people who will agree with his statement and he is building up support for when the next leadership election takes place. I think the party should remove the Whip, thus leaving him out to dry on his own without party support. This may also take him out of the limelight that he so blatantly craves. Can you imagine the state the country would in if he was Prime Minister - I shudder at the thought.

grandtanteJE65 Wed 08-Aug-18 14:04:17

The situation in Denmark is that we have a law forbidding people to wear masks, ski-masks or the like in public to minimise the risk of armed robberies or acts of terrorism. We have also had to demand that girls did not sit public exams wearing burkas with a face veil or the like, unless they were willing to unveil in the presence of a female member of the school or college staff. This came about because girls were identifying themselves by means of their national health card and in some, admittedly few cases, the card belonged to the girl who had enrolled for the exam, but the girl actually sitting the exam was not her, but her cousin or sister.

A much publicised case was the refusal of a bus driver to transport a woman who refused to unveil - he quoted the anti-terrorist laws and the courts found his contention valid.

After all as far back as the Partition riots, men in burkas were fairly common, as they more recently have been throwing bombs in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Israel.

In principle I agree people should be allowed to dress as they please. However, we have always had laws about public decency and public safety and some forms of clothing can be said to contravene these.

Most religions adapt to the society they are practised in - here most Muslims dress like everyone else, and have had, as has the Jewish community, to accept that the law in Denmark insists that bodies must be buried in coffins and not just in shrouds as both Jewish and Muslim religious ruling fine quite acceptable.

Hm999 Wed 08-Aug-18 15:23:49

It's not my business to tell other women how to dress (and plenty of western women dress to please their husbands).
It varies from family to family (possibly influenced by their mosque) at what age a young woman covers her hair or her face, if they are going to. As a teacher, I think ten is the youngest I remember.

moorlikeit Wed 08-Aug-18 15:38:35

Hear hear Lilyflower.

Grampie Wed 08-Aug-18 15:50:51

Freedom of speech is a wonderful right of ours.

With his postbox remark BoJo is testing to see if he is arrested.

And please remove your helmet before visiting your bank.

Lyndie Wed 08-Aug-18 16:32:15

Woman have fought so hard and still are for equality. I feel, they want our freedoms and a better life but not our culture.

Craftycat Wed 08-Aug-18 16:55:40

I find anything that covers the whole face sinister. I also feel that this is something imposed on women by men. I totally agree with the French that they should be banned. No woman wants to have to cover her face unless it is being imposed upon her & she is too intimidated to refuse
Having said that I think women in Hijabs look wonderful & they all seem to be very good with their eye makeup. I understand they want to keep their beautiful hair for their loved ones only but no-one want to walk around in a hot black tent.
I hope we ban niquabs but we won't as we are all too scared of being called racist.