Boris and Trump

In my opinion BJ is quite simply working towards becoming the next leader of the Tory party. He has calculated that he will have plenty of people who will agree with his statement and he is building up support for when the next leadership election takes place. I think the party should remove the Whip, thus leaving him out to dry on his own without party support. This may also take him out of the limelight that he so blatantly craves. Can you imagine the state the country would in if he was Prime Minister - I shudder at the thought.

What exactly is the purpose of the burqa and niqab? Are they a fashion statement? Are they a religious requirement? Are they a statement of freedom? Are they a symbol of repression? Are they traditional dress for hot climates? Are they representitive of certain cultural values? There is a huge amount of strong feeling regarding this issue both pro and anti with a lot of obfuscation and disingenousness thrown into the mix. Maybe a less inflammatory more meaningful discussion around these garments could take place if someone could give a definitive answer as to the ethos behind the wearing of them.

I have read several pieces where Muslim women decry the acceptance by western countries of the burka and niqab etc. in the name of political correctness. They have said loud and clear that they want support for Muslim women to enjoy equal rights and that these garments are all about male dominance and are not required by Islam. It is no good saying that Muslim women have a choice when they are brought up in strict patriarchal households where they are told from an early age that they are whores if they show their hair. It is time to make sure that all women in the UK enjoy the same rights and I would include those women in other male-dominated religious groups as well. I find it completely unacceptable that some women's lives are ruled by Sharia law or similar restrictive laws as in the Jewish Hasidic community. There should only be one set of laws in the UK that protects all its citizens.

To me, the burqua is a garment of exploitation, intimidation, oppression and, indeed, torture, for the wearer. I cannot imagine a case in a free society where anyone would choose to wear a burqua without being brainwashed.

Therefore burquas and face coverings should never be forced on those under the age of majority.

I think it would be safe to assume that, if a young woman were to take up the wearing of an all encompassing, stifling, restrictive garment at the age of eighteen, there would be an element of rubbing others' noses in it.

If the wearing of face covering was a religious duty or a neutral act then men of the culture which advocates them would assume burqas too. But they don't as we all know they are a low status garment originally designed to protect women but which are now used to keep them in their place. A burqua on a man would be a garment of shame and humiliation.

There are a variety of reasons why Islamic and other women cover their faces from a fear of their menfolk to a now radical desire to provoke those perceived as 'other'.

We ought, in a free democracy, to protect women from being oppressed - and remember the burqua goes hand in hand with other horrors such as FGM, cousin marriage and forced marriage. And if faces are covered to provoke and offend then this is not acceptable either and should be stopped by a general ban. We do not tolerate nudity on the street or the bearing of arms for good reasons and we should not tolerate burquas.

To be honest, I don't care if Bojo or Jeremy Corbyn or Ronald Macdonald criticise the burqua as they would be right.

It has been well reported that Boris has been meeting with Trump's aide Steve Bannon recently - you can see the agenda to stir up racial division is the same as in the US

I am also sick of the fuss made of Labours so called anti-semitism and yet here we have the same sort of thing with our present government but towards the Islam faith. Will a big fuss be created, I doubt it.

Although I'm not a supporter of ladies wearing this type of garment,Boris should not have said what he did.

JMW I wouldn't disagree. But why would anyone want to walk around dressed in blanket covering? Unless to make some kind of statement.

You need to read the whole article, not just the sound bites snipped out by the BBC. Boris is an extremely clever & erudite man and having read most of his books I would trust his brains. Yes I believe he wanted to stir a wasps’ nest and sure enough, the wasps are buzzing around foolishly. He actually said he cannot understand why anyone would want to walk around dressed like a letterbox - how is that anti-Islam? True Islam does not demand that women dress in shrouds, but if they REALLY want to, they should be able to, which is exactly what Boris said, if you take the time to read his article .

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Hear Hear Riverwalk!

We forever hear about how the poor and put-upon Israelis are forever at the mercy of those bullying anti-semitic Palestinians......it takes two to tango.

Which is what Mr Corbyn has been reasonably been daring to point out for quite some time.

Solitaire.
I go along with your feelings but even though the world has advanced to the,' unimaginable', centuries old tribal and religious practises are, , not always a matter of 21C persons choice.

Motorcyclists have to remove helmets in garages when someone I know queried this were told its so cameras nd staff can see their face same on buses with bus passes so if that's the case then the burka makes a mockery of the law in this country personally I feel it's up to them what they wear but I can see why motorcyclists and bus /saffy in shops get annoyed by it

Boris Johnson was actually defending a woman's right to wear what she likes in public as long as she is not in certain situations where it is necessary and desirable to see the face. His remarks about 'letterbox 'etc were his opinion...are people in public life not allowed an opinion? He didn't link this dress to terrorism or insult their beliefs. There are parts of some cities where some western dress is not acceptable to the Muslim residents and they will come and tell you so in no uncertain terms... on the streets.

I would find it disrespectful and would refuse any face to face verbal communication with a person who chose to completely cover their face. However I see no problem or would I have cause to object to a person wearing whatever floats their boat.
What you believe in is your choice and where freedom of speech is concerned one does not do ones self any favours by broadcasting this to the world.

Jane10, re your second comment. I remember an American lawyer friend of mine making the same comment about Mr. Trump. I cannot tell you how assured and vociferous she was with her heartfelt (and researched!) opinion. Oh yesssss. Think of it (and her) often regarding this.

caocao crossed posts ☺ I agree.

I was at a theme park with my grandson and there were a number of women? wearing full black burkas with veiled eye slits. They were trying to care for a large number of children whilst the men strolled and talked to each other.
It was a very hot day and I felt mixed emotions for all concerned, anger, sadness, unease etc., as their freedom and interaction with their children and other people at the park that day was severely restricted.
I wondered how much this was choice.
I wouldn't have chatted to them or even smiled as I would with anyone else there that day, because I couldn't see their facial expression.

I find these outfits deeply disturbing on many levels. You don't know who is beneath them or what their reaction to you is. As a woman I am appalled by what they represent i.e. a culture where women and girls have no worth and are not allowed a life outside the home that is not monitored and controlled by male relations. There are parts of my home city which I will no longer visit but if I pass through, especially in hot weather, I am struck by the juxtaposition of the men in their traditional dress of cool white and the women completely covered in heat absorbing black. I cannot help but feel the roots of this lies in making the garments as uncomfortable as possible to deter the women from wanting to venture outside. There is no religious requirement for this mode of dress and full face coverings should be banned for all sorts of reasons.

I have heard that Boris is looking for a new constituency for the next election as he doesn't think that Uxbridge will vote for him again after he disappeared for the Heathrow vote. That was mainly why they voted for him in the first place. Let us hope that he doesn't find one.
I agree with Riverwalk and Fennel. Talk about flogging a subject to death (and beyond).

This is also being discussed on another thread @Boris's Gaffe. I don't theink GN HQ is able to merge them.

Words fail me to describe BJ. I truly believe in everyone being able to be who they want to be, follow their own faiths, live and let live etc But in this day and age should it be socially acceptable ? Are these women brain washed from birth to have to accept that they must go out dressed this way ? And why don’t the men have to cover up ? Inequality and oppression, they are my issues.

I feel offended when I m confronted by someone who doesn't want me to see their face, be it a hijab, visored helmet or ski mask. It makes me uncomfortable and I always wonder what they have to hide. In the current climate of suspicion and unease concerning terrorism and also other forms of criminal behaviour I think all types of face covering in public should be banned. This is not a racial statement, more like one of self preservation. In the secondary school where I work, no-one is allowed on school grounds with their faces covered. This has led to criticism as we have a large Muslim population but i think it helps to keep the pupils safe.

I agree with GillT57 about his speech being pro Boris, but like Jane10 I do find the ‘letter box’ outfits intimidating and find myself looking at the feet to see if it’s likely to be a man under there.
If I visit an Islamic country I have to follow their dress code.
If I wear a motorcycle helmet whilst riding, I have to remove it before going into shops, libraries etc.

Boris is a wally, but he's not the first senior politician to express such views and - as someone who remembers the sometimes-daft dress codes for women still imposed in the 1970s - I do wonder if it is a good idea for young children to learn that their mothers and grannies (but never the dads and granddads) need to hide their faces from all public gaze or to be draped in garments which would be completely impractical for certain tasks, sports or activities the children might enjoy. We are assured that all women wearing full coverings do so voluntarily, but it is quite hard to believe and it does come across as a way of isolating females from social inclusion. The power of facial expression as a way of communication can't be underestimated. A young friend wat recently asked to remove a nose piercing for her first job because it was held to be quite intimidating for older members of the public with whom she'd have to deal. I do feel strangely uncomfortable if I have to deal with someone in a closed motor bike helmet or someone in large wraparound dark glasses and a hoodie. The issue certainly needs debate, but I doubt if Boris is the man from whom we should take our lead.