Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

Joelsnan

Is that because the media says so, or are there other ways of understanding a persons psyche without being told what to believe by the media?

Nothing to do with what the media say. In fact, if we blindly accept things as the media present them, we might as stop 'discussing' politics right now!
My views are based on what I like to think is a realistic consideration of BJ's words and actions over the last few years. He is a politician. Some politicians seek nothing more than to represent their constituents. Others are in politics for what it can do for them. You already know which group I think BJ belongs to, but DO NOT INSULT ME BY SUGGESTING THAT MY VIEWS ARE BASED ON MEDIA HYPE!

There seems to be a certain mismatch between those who use the term "snowflake" or rail against those being "oversensitive" to Johnson's comments - and their whimpering complaint that certain styles of dress are "threatening". Or indeed that they feel threatened or intimidated by someone wearing a veil. Best not to paint yourself into too small a comfort zone as you get older I think. Where does it end? Staying indoors because you're scared of anyone who is not exactly like you maybe? Being too scared to go to the hospital because one of the doctors might not look and sound exactly like your own family?

Genuine question here:
Those who view immigrants in a more positive light and see the benefits & contributions they have made to the UK
Indeed they have, but could I just ask what role a woman who is constricted by a burka is undertaking to benefit society?
And if it is as a SAHM - then well done - but they too are much denigrated by some.

(PECS) He wants to be an active part of the *ruling elite*
Sorry to those who believe that our politicians rule us - they are our elected servants.

MamaCaz
Is that because the media says so, or are there other ways of understanding a persons psyche without being told what to believe by the media?

PECS - I agree with you up to a point.
But another factor comes in - in a small country like ours, with a limited supply of houses schools hospitals doctors nurses police etc there comes a point where we can't absorb any more people.
Italy, being one of the main receiving points of N African immigrants, has already reached that point. Now what's happening there?

Day6
(PECS) He wants to be an active part of the *ruling elite

(You) "Oh dear. Straight from the Socialist worker maybe?"

You mock PECS, but do you truly believe that Boris doesn't aspire to that? To me, it is as plain as the nose on my face!

PECS
GENERALLY SPEAKING ALERT: Those who are wary of immigration, immigrants and people being 'different' and 'spoiling' the UK will think his remarks are innocent and reflecting the thought of many (like them). Those who view immigrants in a more positive light and see the benefits & contributions they have made to the UK are more likely to see his remarks as calculated and divisive and trying to 'other' groups of people.

This is not a 'General Speaking Alert'. This is your somewhat obtuse view.
You cannot generalise about the 'indigenous' population or the recent immigrant population.

MWBroon, what do you think they look like covered head to toe in black, peering out of a slit? I think it looks threatening,that is my opinion, you don't have to agree, but please don't tell me how I must think.

Could you tell me precisely I told you what to think Luckylegs ?
Yes insults fly around the House of Commons, but should they be published in a reputable broadsheet?
matter of opinion.

PECS Wrong again

Those who view immigrants in a more positive light and see the benefits & contributions they have made to the UK are more likely to see his remarks as calculated and divisive and trying to 'other' groups of people

That is your arrogant and contrived division.

I see immigrants in a positive light and have worked and lived alongside many in my lifetime. I do not see BJ's remarks in the same light. You are accusing many who have no beef with immigration of being racist. I have just posted left wing Polly Toynbee's words, denigrating the reasons behind the wearing of the burka. You'll be telling us she hates immigrants in a minute.

Boris has a point. He made it badly. He started a discussion which has been had all over Europe already, and in many cases it has led to a banning of face-covering. You do not need to be 'on a side' or even have strong views on immigration to be concerned about the identity of the person next to you who is hidden from head to toe in black cloth.

It suits YOUR political agenda PECS, to create 'sides'.

Johnson could easily have just stated an opinion that he found the wearing of burkas to be repressive, even made an argument about why they could be found unacceptable. However, that’s not what he did; instead he made rude and insensitive comments and this is why he is being investigated and why his motives are being questioned.

I think this is worth reading:
“Islam is not a race, but using arguments that rely on racial stereotypes and ignoring the newer forms of cultural racism that seek to ‘other’ on the basis of people’s names, how they look, their dress, and then using these cultural symbols as signifiers to treat people with contempt is a form of racism. It’s what leads to attacks on those who are Muslim and ‘appear’ Muslim. As political discourse portrays Muslims as an enemy within, racism has come to adjust and capitalise on this new ‘othering’ to whip up fears and anxieties, just as it has with other groups in the past.

metro.co.uk/2018/08/09/islam-is-not-a-race-but-singling-out-a-community-is-racism-whether-the-right-wing-say-so-or-not-7818644/?ito=article.amp.share.bottom.email

He wants to be an active part of the *ruling elite*

Oh dear. Straight from the Socialist worker maybe?

That's another tired old phrase. Corbyn is part of the 'ruling elite' All politicians are. Most are well educated. You object to that? Do you object to us being governed perhaps?

My goodness does nobody read a post properly on here!
you think because he has some foreign ancestry he won't be racist?

PECS I think I have posted twice that Islam is not a race. Nor is Judaism.

Polly Toynbee, that bastion of the left, writing in The Guardian in 2001. She too dislikes fundamentalist Islam that oppresses women and uses the power of the burka/niqab as a signal to the west.

"All extreme fundamentalism plunges back into the dark ages by using the oppression of women (sometimes called "family values") as its talisman. Religions that thrive are pliable, morphing to suit changing needs: most Christianity has had to moderate to modernise.

Islamic fundamentalism flourishes because it too suits modern needs very well in a developing world seeking an identity to defy the west. And the burka and chador are its battle flags.

The war leaders are coy about this mighty cultural war of the worlds that is fought out over women's bodies."

We don't need to go into the religious aspects even. It is a form of dress that insults westerners, defies the convention of knowing who is standing next to you and creates distrust. That is enough reason to ban face covering, imo.

www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/28/religion.afghanistan

Jalima really? you think because he has some foreign ancestry he won't be racist? I do not think that is a hard and fast rule! He wants to be an active part of the ruling elite ..he'd sell his own granny for that!

My goodness does nobody read a post properly on here! Day 6 I have said about four times I know what the man wrote and I do not like veils. It is not actually about wearing burkas.

I totally agree that my political opinion , just as yours does, makes me consider this in a particular way! Doh!

GENERALLY SPEAKING ALERT: Those who are wary of immigration, immigrants and people being 'different' and 'spoiling' the UK will think his remarks are innocent and reflecting the thought of many (like them). Those who view immigrants in a more positive light and see the benefits & contributions they have made to the UK are more likely to see his remarks as calculated and divisive and trying to 'other' groups of people.

MWbroom, what do you think they look like covered head to toe in black, peering out of a slit? I think it looks threatening,that is my opinion, you don't have to agree, but please don't tell me how I must think. If they are necessary I wonder the men don't wear them, most of them are in western dress anyway. It is not religious it is choice. Boris has a right to his opinion, he makes me cringe a lot of the time, but I defend his right to say it. I personally dislike piercings and tattoos, others love them, we don't all have to agree. Every day in the House of Commons personal insults fly, I am not condoning it as it bebases the argument. I hope we continue to have people that voice what the public think, political correctness has gone mad.

A lot of people are thinking that now.

I hope not!
To me he is forever the journalist, out to shock somewhat.

He was stirring the sh*t in the hope of getting racists on board with him

I totally disagree. I'd suggest that is your anti-Tory smearing of a topic that does concern many, many people, left wingers and Muslims included.

It is NOT racist to dislike a head to toe covering that fundamentalist Muslims are insisting their women wear. Muslim women are NOT obliged, because of their faith, to wear the niqab or burka so there is no good reason why they adopt it, other than maybe, to make a statement.

Johnson's statement was lacking in tact, clumsy and rude, but it served a purpose. Why are we frightened to have this discussion?

As I stated before, there hasn't been a Muslim backlash in countries where face covering has been banned, because there is actually nothing written in the Koran that insists women cover their faces. It is not a racist issue - it's one of sensibilities and the western cultural norm of speaking face to face being ignored.

It's not even a can of worms he's opened - it's a discussion the British are frightened to have. That is the most revealing issue regarding Boris's latest statement.

Jalima1108

Yes, as I said, I now think I know why Boris has said this, but my theory is different from yours

Having thought about this,I don't think Boris cares one way or the other whether women wear such clothing, or whether there is a ban on it.
IMO, what he does care about is attracting the populist vote in preparation for when he finally makes his move towards the top job.

He has seen what had worked for Trump, and aims to do the same - play to our fears, whether real or imaginary. And you know what? It will probably work!

and, as I pointed out, Islam and Judaism too, are religions, not races.

is - missing from my post

As he has a Muslim great-grandfather and a Jewish step-mother, I don't think he is being 'racist'.

If Johnson is being judged on the company he keeps then how can anyone defend Corbyn when he is called anti Semitic, I am sure .johnson who is an intellegent man and a journalist didn’t need guidance from anyone. He has pleased both sides in this.

But do you know why he said it MamaCaz - or assuming, like so many, that you think you know what and why he said this?

He is saying that there should not be a ban on burkas - even if he thinks that they are repressive.

We are far more liberal than many other European countries - should people not be more concerned about the ban on burkas in other parts of the EU than agonising over a daft remark from a politician who, quite frankly, still a journalist at heart?

Should Boris Johnson gain the Conservative party leadership out of these comments, he could become the best leader the Labour Party has ever had. :-)

All I hope is that Boris doesn't feel browbeaten into issuing a grovelling apology, like so many have over so called 'racist' comments.

As is often the case, 'letter box' and 'bank robbers' have been commented on in isolation without being considered in the light of the whole piece.

I fear there may be a witch hunt by those who would like to see him ousted from the Conservatives.

Now I can't claim to be his biggest fan, but this has been blown out of all proportion by those who seem to positively delight in finding 'racist' comments to be outraged at.