Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

Burkas and Niqabs are horrible garments that serve no purpose whatsoever other than to draw attention to the wearer . I can bet we will start seeing more and more of them on our streets though . There’s certainly more than there ever was in my town.

Allygran if I may quote
and accuse Boris Johnson of making his now famous, and for some infamous statement about the fully covered Burka'd women to gain support from the above named groups to get him into power. Now Machiavelli would have given you at least ten out of ten for that bit of lateral thinking and political connectivity

When it comes to Machiavellian, Johnson is a past master. You only have to look at his stance on Brexit, his very clear ambition of leadership of the Conservative party by whichever means he can.
So yes, got it in one!

I have just read both reports Baggs and they both speak perfect sense . There is no way BJ should apologise as he has said or done nothing wrong .

People as diverse as Rowan Atkinson and a Muslim imam are speaking out in support of what Boris said

The letterbox/bank robber analogy, Baggs?
And does the Pope think nuns look like penguins?
Well, well, well
.

The argument about women being pressured by culture, men,relatives etc to dress in a particular way is quite amusing and misplaced. Why do so many white young women feel pressured to stick on false eyelashes in the morning, to have plastic surgery to their breasts and even their labia and to move every single hair from their body, from the eyes down. And then go out wearing shorts that don't even cover their buttocks. No pressure. The idea just pops, simultaneously, into their heads!

Very good post Allygran1

People as diverse as Rowan Atkinson and a Muslim imam are speaking out in support of what Boris said.

I agree Lindiloo - snowflakes offended again! ?? This is still a western country - they are very lucky that this form of dressing is not banned! If westerners go to Arab countries we have to abide by their dress code or else!

PECS I agree with Joelsnan, hate is an extreme word that has no place in anything I have read thus far on this thread.

Whilst you rightly draw attention to power groups, since they do exist. You fail to realise though that this is not about power it's about fear, fairness and freedom.

On any Street as other posters have so well described and someone even perceptively also brought another aspect to the discussion that some who wear the veil are making a 'provocative statement", others are following the 'rule's' of the family, or their religious belief. However we have also learned from the same poster, that Islam only require's 'modest dress", so wearing the full black Burka and face veil is a matter of choice, not religion.

So the question, the big question, how much are those who wear the full face cover prepared to compromise? The full face cover is an intimidating piece of clothing to others, just as another poster said, her son cannot go into a Bank with his motorbike helmet on, another poster on the wearing of a balaclava. What would happen should any one of us wear a Balaclava to go to our Supermarket...do you really think we would be allowed in? How many yards down the High Street would any of us get wearing a Balaclava before the Men in Blue and probably armed 'felt our collar's". So fairness too is an issue, especially when the veil is of choice not of religious requirement.

Whilst we all should feel free to wear what we want to, there are certain dress code's Law's, conventions and courtesies that most of us conform to. As mentioned previously, Motorbike Helmets in restricted area's, full face covering (Balaclava) in normal daily life, mask's to go to M&S all either restricted, illegal or discourteous to other's, not to mention scary and sinister looking, bringing trepidation and caution out in others.

You deftly move from the topic into "Brexit", "fascism", "right wing extemism", "UKippers" and accuse Boris Johnson of making his now famous, and for some infamous statement about the fully covered Burka'd women to gain support from the above named groups to get him into power. Now Machiavelli would have given you at least ten out of ten for that bit of lateral thinking and political connectivity.
You failed however to mention the far left, Trotskyist, Momentum (who I have yet to put into their correct slot) so l will use Anarchist.

The interesting slant on this is how quickly the comparison to antisemitism in the Labour party was made and how quickly the people in his own Party were pressured into an investigation. The Police are being heckled into "looking at the allegations".

What is happening to this Country? Political correctness gone mad. No one can laugh at themselves anymore, and it' seems that is culturally catching since it seems neither can the Burka'd women or their communities. Offence is seen not just around every corner, but people seeking out any hint of offence. Day6 pointed out that it is "the white middle class" who are "terrified" of speaking out to agree that criticism of some groups IS valid!".
She also says rightly in my view that :
"It's so very right-on not to be offended and if you are, well don't voice those opinions whatever you do, because - OMG, you'll be criticised for being white, middle class and literate! (Reading the Daily Mail is a very tired and over used slur.)"
The groups who are intimidated into silence are not always where you are looking PECS. Nor are they always from the cultures/religious groups that you would be readily looking to support. They are the silent majority afraid to speak out.

If this carry's on and there is no compromise, no understanding of how these very scary dress codes worn by some islamic women is perceived by others, then inevitably they will themselves bring about a ban, which would be sad, since the decision to integrate or not, to choose or not to scare or even offend others, by wearing the Burka and veil is an individual decision, and hopefully with education and awareness of how other's see it, things might change slowly. Particularly as we are now aware that Islam does not insist on the wearing of the full cover and veil, merely modest dress.
Consider the impact of that voluntary courtesy of removing the veil, it would be admired and respected greatly.

Hate is a very emotive word and stirs up ill feeling. A word that I am pretty sure you have chosen well for impact and reaction. This thread is not indicating hatred of any sort in my view.

I put it to you PECS, for consideration that you are apportioning accountability for action to the wrong people. You seem to think that it is the 'other's' the ones who don't wear the Burka and veil who should change their attitudes. Would you ever consider that the responsibility for change might rest with those women who wear the Burka and veil, that a change in their attitudes could lead to greater integration, moderation and understanding that can only come from the Burka wearing population. Not the rest of the population, unless you want us all to start wearing the Burka and veil.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-34590878https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-34590878

Banned except for 'cultural items of clothing'.

Interesting point quizqueen weren't hoods banned somewhere a while ago?

I don't think anyone should be able to walk out in public while obscuring their facial identity; whether it's a burka or similar, a pulled down hood, a motorcycle helmet, a balaclava or a mask. I'm sure there are others I've left out.

I bet you look 'bloomin' lovely' muffin!

muffinthemoo
Maybe we should to see what would happen. Though i think i will wait until the weather cools

Day6 given the state of me lately, it would practically be a public service for me to go about in a balaclava

So, we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

If all the women who wear burkas etc did so entirely of their own volition having been given the opportunity to refuse those forms of dress, I think I would be less concerned. From my experience, this is often not the case. Family pressure from early childhood often makes it nigh on impossible to do anything but conform. The stakes are high: girls can be thrown out of their families and communities for daring to question. Is it really fair to allow women to be oppressed within the UK? I think the response of " I think people should be allowed to wear what they like" is far too simplistic and no help at all to those women struggling to find a voice within restrictive communities.

Flipping autocorrect!
Living, Middle

When i luved in the muddle east only not all of the women were veiled there, and when they did it was in a public place where men also were. If it was a fully female environment, all the black garb came iff to show fabulous haircuts and designer clothing. Female only beaches would be filled with bikini clad bodies and weddings an amazing site of Shirley Bassey style dresses.
I had a couple or more scary occassions when walking in the evenings to be passed by a fully covered person who was obviously a male, usually the shoes gave them away.

I think he was saying what many people think. Women who wear the burka do so from choice. But that choice allows them to go into banks, building societies and post offices. My son is not allowed in those places with his crash helmet on, and in some places people, wearing hoodies are frowned on. So how come we have one rule for one sort of head and face cover and a different rule for the burka?

Also nobody has turned on anyone! I did say that in this country the majority population is white & British. By Johnson, in his high profile & privileged position make a public denigrating remark about a minority group by most standards that is racism.

"Left wing BBC" ????
Next you'll be telling us the BBC are impartial ????

"Left wing BBC" ????

Naz Shah wss totally out of order with that comment. Any person being abused must report it. The background of abusers should not be relevant in any investigation. It is wrong whoever the perpetrator.

Boris Johnson "did not commit a criminal offence" with his remarks on burqas, the head of the Metropolitan Police has declared.