Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

The coffee shop is an international brand name PECS they have a large sign stating “that only food bought on the premises may be consumed..... “ etc.

My DD has pointed the sign out to them so many times she has lost count . She feels that They are inviting her to confront them which she has since been told by senior management that she is not to do for fear of racist repercussions. So they have won.

A minority of Muslim women in Britian wear the burkha, so it's not really that much of an issue - most burkha-wearing women in London seem to be tourists from Saudi Arabia. So why did Johson choose to focus on this, under the pretext of a concern for women's rights? I don't think the choice of words was 'clumsy' - it was very deliberate, and designed to give out a message that ridiculing Muslims is acceptable, under the guise of 'humour'. Johnson's lovable buffoon persona is wearing thin - the naked ambition is showing through, and he knows how to appeal to the right wing of his party.

Oldwoman70 you may know many Muslim women or not I do not know. I do happen to know quite a few, as colleagues, friends or family. The thing is they are all ordinary women. Some choose to wear 'Western' dress others prefer to wear more traditional Islamic dress and a very few choose to wear a full veil when in public. They are from a range of backgrounds from very wealthy to poor a Mosque mice! The mode of dress across that group is mixed.

We are often more worried or even fearful about things we don't know or understand, things that are unfamiliar. We can also be fed all kinds of tales about things that are not quite true by people who want us to stay fearful. If we all work together to understand and know all different people from all walks of life we would realise we all have far more in common than we ever thought. There are good and bad in all strata fo society ..what we wear is an irrelevance..it is how we behave that matters.

I think his comment was totally outrageous - deliberately straight out of the Trump mode of politics. It is a calculated attempt to appeal to the prejudiced and ignorant - but I construe it as inciting racial hatred. Imagine being told you look like a letter-box or a bank robber. He is a very clever man, and knew exactly what he was doing by making such comments. We are living in a very divided country, and statements such as this risk widening this divide even further.

Old woman
They get on the plane, disappear into the loos and emerge all made up and wearing western clothing! Been there, seen it.
It’s extremely difficult, I find, to interact with someone I can’t see, I can’t imagine how uncomfortable it must be to wear the whole caboodle.

As has been repeated on numerous occasions it is not a requirement of Islam to wear a veil.

Whether we realise it or not we "read" a lot from peoples facial expressions and as a result are uncomfortable when we are unable to do so. Wearing the veil is surely more a symbol of subservience to a man or to a state - many rich women from Arab countries who wear the burkha at home will visit London and wear western clothes

How many, I wonder, are teenagers going through that rebellious, look-at-me-I’m-different-time of life?

I can see a certain advantage. Get out of bed, put on black sheet. Walk out of door. Sorted!

"Gilly" if it is the cafe's reasonable rule to only eat foid bought ther just tell them politely that is the rule. By not doing so it is creating resentment and increasing the fear. But really if nobody says a thing why is it the fault of the women?? Just get a few more table notices stating the rule and point it out if anyone ignores it.

Boris Johnson has opened up discussion on how we feel about women who hide their faces. That's the bottom line. Religious, cultural and sexist aspects come into discussion of this and gives rise to righteous comment.
However, how sexist is it for men in full face balaclavas to be absolutely not OK even if it is their choice yet its absolutely fine for women to cover theirs to exactly the same extent?
We're human, we need to see faces for normal, comfortable social communication to take place. Inability to do this is intimidating. Gillbob's example is a good illustration.

Yes I have and Gilly have you read what I have posted?
This calculating politician Johnson knows exactly what he is up to. He is trying to normalize disrespect for groups of people. He wants to destabilise society so that he and his right wing chums can run the country. This week it is people in veils next it could be "lazy 'Andy
Capp'northerners'"or any other group he thinks that are underdogs that will appeal to his faithful followers. They won't care about you anymore than me or women wearing a veil. They will care about themselves and their money and power.

As a political thread virgin, this has been enlightening. Who needs a newspaper when you have GN!
Many things people wear in this country shock me; stiletto heels, tattoos, earrings on babies, exposing too much flesh etc should we just live and let live? I haven't ever seen the complete Burka in real life. I would think it's horribly hot. Where I live people complain about too much immigration but we have maybe a dozen Asian families in a town of 20,000.

Boris is a product of his own cultural background. I am relieved he's no longer FS but fear he is preferred to May in some quarters.

The world is a scary place but it's good to talk to eachother.

Did you read or hear what BJ actually said though PECS ? Or are you just thinking about the 2 lines banded around over the last few days? It was (in my opinion) completely non racist. In fact he welcomed the fact that we live in a society where they could choose to dress like this if they wish to.

But PECS in my town the few who do choose to dress like this are the only ones who attract any attention . As I said up thread my lovely gentle DD is terrified to ask them to stop using her coffee shop to eat their own brought in food. Her senior manager has told her to just let them get on with it for fear of racist repercussions. Can you imagine if that were you or I ?

Allowing racism airspace.

Maybe they feel safer from all the racist bigots they meet every day. A couple of the girls I know have faced dreadful abuse from people and have subsequently chosen the full veil because people do leave them alone. Sad comment on our society.

Well say what you like about Bo Jo but at least he has got the nation talking about it.

Oh no not easy at all PECS and no comparison between Northerners, Southerners etc. Who mostly don’t choose to walk around covered head to toe in a giant black sheet, like this. Personally I find it very intimidating.

In a free and tolerant country like the UK why would anyone choose to walk around dressed like this? To attract attention perhaps?

For a lot of young British Muslim women who choose this mode of dress it is often a political & not religious choice. A statement against the racism they have faced. Some do choose to take the requirement for modesty to the limit. As I say it is not a choice I support but I can't get on a soap box about it.
It is natural to be wary of the unfamiliar but really it is just an ordinary woman in an unusual outfit.

An excellent post Lucky .

What I don’t understand is, why, if I question the reasons why a woman would choose to walk around our streets dressed like this, I am considered to be a racist?

The piece written for the Telepgraph was read out in full on our local BBC radio too lemon . I happened to agree with most of it.

I know it's awfull but I think of them a Daleks - aliens, religious adherence or dress comes in degrees and a Burka is an extreme interpretation.
The Koran says nothing about women looking like a post box a Boris put it, it actually says women should dress modestly, and very few of us are going to argue with that. Many eastern women of different religions wear a headscarf as a sign of religious or cultural respect, in the same way a Christian woman mighty wear a crucifix on a necklace or bracelet
I abhor extremist in any form because it divides society, no doubt the adherent feels in some way superior to the rest of us, a better person maybe but it isolates them and prevents integration. Maybe that is the intention of the community that imposes extreme dress code, to maintain their own separate society.

Easily Gilly they are very normal people.They just dress in a way that is strange to us in this country. Honestly, I have known a few women who do choose the veil. I don't think it is a good choice but then I see a lot of women wearing outfits & I think that! Underneath they are just women like us..very ordinary people. Some you like, some you don't. Once we start to fear people "not like us" that is how we allow hate and violence to grow. If you ever have the chance just try talking. Same with travellers, Northerners, Southerners, Welsh, Irish, Sottish , English.....

I do not think analogies with nuns hold water - I do not care what anyone wears as long as their faces can be seen and they can communicate as fellow human being.

nor

Yes Maw it was written, not a speech (by Johnson) I didn’t read it but it was read out in full on PM on Radio 4.

I do find the sight of women in burkas, as above, completely chilling. If that sounds racist and intolerant, then there is nothing I can do but be honest.

These are our fellow women, who are being reduced to this humiliation. I find it unbearable.

Clearly it is not part of the British culture to be banning them; but many countries have. Presumably they find it as chilling as I do.

I really do feel it goes totally against human nature and that some very strong indoctrination must go on to make women choose to dress like this; and many I am sure are simply forced to.

It says so much about the role of women in their culture - a role that we have thankfully moved on from. Of course we find it hard to take.

Aspects of other cultures can be offensive to us, FGM being the prime and obvious one.

I do not think we should be made to feel ashamed because of our concerns; not should it be wrong to voice them.

These are women who have been indoctrinated or forced into a negation of self, which in our culture is not acceptable.