Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

For me the issue is not about the clothing - that's a vast subject encompassing male dominance, the right to choose and differing cultural issues and social tolerance of same.
What gets me hot under the collar is the complete lack of judgement shown by many politicians. All this speak as I find rhetoric that is trouble enough in a domestic setting. I do wish there was a bit more restraint, a bit more thought and just a general 'engaging of brains' before mouths being opened. These people are supposed to be leading us in a very troubled world!!!

The ones with the eye mesh does not allow the wearer any peripheral vision, could be very dangerous in certain situation, lunatic bike riders in pedestrian thoroughfares, crossing the road etc.

The majority of these girls wear the Burqua not because they have to. They have culturally approriated the traditional dress of the Arabian Peninsula firstly to define them as different and secondly to virtue signal. The majority are British Pakistani women where even in their country of origin this garb is not worn and few follow the faith as prescribed.

Well said lemongrove and lets not forget the subliminal patriarchal message that goes with the wearing of such a garment. A covering that reminds us constantly how male control plays out in such an extreme way in societies where some of the wearers emanate from, very at odds with western values. Yasmin Alibah Brown, a female Muslim journalist is very outspoken against them for most of reasons mentioned, always quoting the well worn but very apt "when in Rome" quote.

Boris was wrong to use such a lack of tact or diplomacy he can't expect to have any sort of meaningful debate about the matter when his preamble to stating they shouldn't be banned, includes quite a few insults.

It's worth noting, as lemon has stated, that quite a few Eu countries have banned face coverings, countries we would regard as liberal. Banning, quite possibly a step too far, but they look so incongruous in a Western society and clearly there are countries in mainland Europe who feel they are a barrier to integration.

Why is it racist to say something looks silly (if in your opinion it does?).

My DD said she is frightened to ask a regular group of burka wearers to leave her coffee shop when they take up the outside seating area and eat Greggs food that they have brought in. She would have no hesitation of telling you or I to leave if we did the same thing.

Just as I said earlier up thread lemon he said a lot more than the 2 lines being reported. He even defended their right to wear them which isn't the same as thinking they are right.

I agree that the women do look ridiculous dressed in long black robes with eye slits or mesh and personally I think they know that they draw more attention by wearing them.

Also as Nicenanny has said, you or I would not be allowed into a shopping centre wearing a helmet, balaclava or hoody covering our face so what is the difference?

Several European countries do ban face coverings but I am glad that this country does not believe it to be necessary or right.

Boris Johnson knows that such a comment will go down well with a large percentage of the population - that's why he said it - to enhance his political profile. I believe the majority of people in this country would like to ban face covering and will have a sneaking admiration for him going against the so-called "pc police".

Muslims are a very easy target these days and I feel such rude comments just stoke the fire of racism and do nothing whatsoever to bring communities together. In fact, whether you agree with covering the face or not (and I can't say I'm a great fan), if a community is isolated and despised and has people in prominent positions adding fuel tot he fire, that community will turn in on itself even more than is presently the case. Why is that a good thing?

As far the comment that "when we are in ..... , we abide by their rules," when we were a colonial power in places like Africa and Asia we didn't adopt their manner of dress. European colonialists forced Africans to wear western style clothing, and British government workers and officials in India did not adopt the traditional Indian style of dress.

I think it is irrelevant whether a form of dress is cultural or religious. It is virtually impossible to differentiate between the two. Many religions interpret their scriptures in different ways and form their dress and other social codes accordingly.

Men/women are not allowed into a bank and some shops wearing motor cycle helmets or hoddies covering their faces. So why should these women (could be a man who would know with only their eyes showing) be allowed to cover their faces. I they should be banned personally. I like Boris he says it like it is and why should he have to apologise to our excuse for a PM weak wimpy May.

You have to hear the full speech ( it was on PM on radio 4 yesterday.)
Several European countries ban face coverings, the UK doesn’t ( this really needs a thread of it’s own.)
It isn’t a requirement of Islam ( full or partial face coverings)
It’s a cultural thing, depending on the country of origin.
Women who wear it by choice, and those who have no choice in the matter are banning themselves from certain jobs ( quite a lot actually) and from fully integrating into society. By banning this form of dress would we be freeing women to do more and be more?
Boris Johnson is a journalist as well as a politician ( rather better at journalism) and would therefore say what he thinks a lot of people agree with ( from all political parties, not just Conservatives.)
Should he have said what he did ( pillar boxes and bank robbers) no, of course not, since he is part of the government, not simply a journalist.
He thinks that women dressed this way in our country look ridiculous ( I agree with him there) but being in the job that he is, he should have used more diplomatic language.

Good point Lindiloo. Men in full face balaclavas are frightening but somehow we're supposed to think it's OK for women.

The BBC is still on about it today!

Personally, I find the burka a bit frightening. I hate seeing just someone's eyes. It blocks all social contact, somehow. (Am I right in thinking that you cannot wear a burka in a court of law, or if you are a teacher ...?) Presumably, because this apparel makes communication very difficult - almost impossible, when you can't see someone's facial expressions.

What would we feel, I wonder, if it became the fashion for young men (or women, for that matter) to wear army-type balaclavers all the time? Very scary! (Hoodies were bad enough!)

I agree niggly, he is a journalist, he knows how to choose words .

Freedom of speech allows us to say we do not find this dress suitable, comparing the women with post box or robber is an insult

It's the name calling that people have an issue with gillybob, not the article as such or any serious discussion. It might be Boris's opinion but why put it in print for public consumption? It added nothing intelligent to his piece, but caused offence as he knew it would. Now why would he want to do that?!!!!!

Many of these are choosing to dress like this. I also found it comical to see a schoolgirl in uniform at my bus stop bursting out of a low cut top and teeny mini skirt but with her hair 'modestly' covered.
Cultural confusion made manifest.

I think it's sad that you find ladies in burka's having difficulty eating comical Jane10. If they were forced to wear this mode of dressing, then it should be pity we should feel, if it's their own choice then so be it. Either way I don't think I'd find it comical, anymore than I'd call them names. Surely no one calls them walking coffins? that's just dreadful!

You really need to hear or read the full piece before jumping to conclusions instead of just the two lines reported in the news today. He actually defended their right to wear such clothing. I happen to agree with most of what he said.

There is thread here about traevellers, what are western values What is British openness.

We can speak to people face to face, we do not know their thoughts, just as well at times

My posting about the Muslim women eating burgers under their face veils illustrated the clash of Western culture with Middle Eastern. It wasn't meant to be spiteful just illustrative. Their right to wear such things - my right to find it comical.

I think he is making a leadership bid.
He was asked to apologise by Mrs May, by refusing to do so he is painting Mrs May as a weak leader and appealing to grass roots Tories to let him take over.

I apologise for the grocer's apostrophe above!!

He's allowed his opinion - he is allowed to voice it in this country of free speech.

I too find the burqa intimidating and inappropriate in our society. There are situations (e.g. in court) where I think it is reasonable for them to be banned. I would also say in schools.

I remember being very scared of the nun's at my school -I thought they had no feet!

The philosophy behind the burqa with all its implications of female as dangerous temptress and male as unable to control their urges is not one I can subscribe to. Nor the sense of male ownership of women.

Carefully contrived remarks to a) gain publicity and b) appeal to the 'grass-roots tories'.

Why do you think the sight of Muslim ladies struggling to eat burghers hysterically funny J.E? Walking coffins!! What a warped unkind sense of humour you must have. Concern might have been more appropriate, if you have to think anything at all.
I entirely agree with your comments Cold and yours Grandad! ( there's always a first time for everything!!) and yours too annie, but then you always show a lot of common sense, which is always refreshing?

I think there's a danger of confusing a religious requirement with a cultural custom. As we understand it, the burka or niqab is not a religious requirement. The desire to wear this clothing is not widely understood and as Grandad43 says, covering ones face goes against Western values.

Good point about Nuns, however they do not cover their faces.

We still have free speech in the UK, but it comes with a price of taking responsibility for what you have said. Tolerance all round, and a couple of deep breaths needed.

This is not news worthy, just a slow news day.