Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

" Baggs Thu 16-Aug-18 19:58:44

Religions are cultural."
Yes, they adapt to fit the culture in which they live at the time.
We live in an orthodox Jewish community and attitudes are similar to those in Islam, but not so extreme.

Religions are cultural.

most muslims do Baggs. It is cultural, not religious.

Do what?

oldbatty: Other People Tribes. worrying.

Indeed so. That's why I felt rather hurt when my house had been called an "Others People's" house. My neighbours were embarassed but felt they had to obey the older woman, even though they didn't see us in the same light that she apparently did.

and again, cultural, not religious.

* Other People Tribes*

worrying.

I would imagine the reasons are as many and varied as people are.

* either a) a deliberate effort to alienate the rest of us or b) horrific instance of female suppression. *

Its neither.

most muslims do Baggs. It is cultural, not religious.

you do realise Muslim women dont wear any head wear inside the home with family or in a female only environment?

Yes, fennel, some people argue that, but just showing one's face in public is not immodest. One can still dress modestly and, in fact, most westerners do.

So was the mother-in-law of my Oxforshire next-door-neighbour (an immigrant from Pakistan married to her cousin) being racist when she said her grandchildren couldn't come into my house because they were not allowed, according to her, to go into the houses of "other people", i.e. non-Muslims?

It felt like it from where I was.

Fortunately, the MiL's ruling did not stop my neighbour from inviting me and Minibaggs into her house, and we had plenty of friendly exchanges over the garden wall. Actually, now I think of it, MrsNextDoor would even ask MrBaggs over to remove frogs from our pond that had wandered into her garden. I think MiL would have died if she'd known that! A man from the Other People Tribes. Oh, horrors!

And to Baggs and others.
The barrier could also be a protection against the increasingly liberal style of female dressing in Western culture.
The reaction and protection of their men from temptation.

Iamnotarobot
Who did you say you are? Or maybe you didn't say?
Your style is so much like that of another poster.
I'm confused.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

People who wear niqabs or burkas are putting a barrier up. Such coverings, as Imam Taj Hargey says, "inhibit community cohesion". Wearing such things is indicative of a refusal to integrate. While that may not be the fault of the wearers, it still is what it seems—a barrier.

Me too.
Its the best way to get to know people.

muffinthemoo- I don't think there's any issue at all with people being pilloried for their clothing. I experience practically nothing- it's quite likely attractive young things get their charms noticed by men but that's a whole different thing (I dimly recall the glory days of wolf whistles when I went out - made my day, wish men would do it now. Note to any male readers: DO whistle at at least one lady a day!) I wouldnt DREAM of telling ANYONE that I didnt like their style, colour scheme etc--but as I say, this isnt about a fashion I despise but either a) a deliberate effort to alienate the rest of us or b) horrific instance of female suppression. And a female of either groupneeds to re-think her attitude. And that's all I have to say.

I chat I don't know
I have no idea what happened there!

I chat to people I don't know

Mine are a bit too far away to pop in.

I chat I don't know; if they were wearing a niqab or burka I may feel they were putting a barrier up between me and themselves.

If you invite your Muslim friends round for a cuppa, you have a great chance for face to face time and chat.

Communication through reading facial expressions is fundamental to humanity.

I think the #MeToo movement is doing doing a lot of damage

I agree Baggs

No one knows what lies behind the veil/covered face. A man could lurk beneath, who knows?

It's not about female appearance: objections are to the practice of face covering, which is anti-social and flying in the face of long held western custom to speak to each other face to face.

I'm afraid I don't believe that either.

I do not believe that most women are subject to barrages of unwelcome comments from men. I think the #MeToo movement is doing doing a lot of damage.

As I recall, there is at present a lively public discussion (within MeToo discussion) to the effect that a woman or girl out in public should not have to be subjected to a barrage of comments from males on her figure and how to improve her appearance. It is widely considered very unwelcome, unpleasant, and quite harassing by women and girls.

It does not magically become acceptable when done by one woman to another.