Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

Confident in my beliefs, oldbatty!

The lady didn't say anything

Really unbelievable. Who on earth do you think you are?

How on earth can anyone know that someone would be ‘pretty’ underneath a veil? ???

They could be toothless, or sporting a moustache or even scarred.

Yes, fair point. I agree, she might not be'pretty'. I DO think (unless she's seriously disfigured) she would be PRETTIER than at present!

I'm asking myself what would be reaction if I wore something people felt inappropriate. Not just wacky (most folk are pretty tolerant tho' I 've had the odd thing if I'm in full hippy garb.) But actually WRONG - let's say I wobble down High St in a micro-bikini; attend funeral in neon clothes) .I think people would say something, whether they just nudge each other, stare, whisper or actually come right out with it. How would I respond? Well if it was just a comment on style, and I thought I looked great, I'd probably ignore it (tho a LOT of reaction would make me take a look in mirror & re-evaluate.) But if I felt people were actively upset, irritated, hostile, then I'd compromise a little. I spent holiday in a religious area of Turkey in a headscarf. Yes, if I had to adopt a burqa in Saudi then I would (it's their country.) And I expect people to be sensitive to what is just OTT here. It's NOT a comment on style, it puts women back into Dark Ages.

I find it amazing that post 'doesnt believe I said it' !! Hope I'm not so weak kneed!! The lady didn't say anything. Had she done, I would have politely engaged with her and tried to explain.

Yes, I understand what you're saying, jnan. I'm not sure I agree about there being no cultural pressure on the women who have, as you put it, "chosen to culturally appropriate this form of dress". Since it is only Muslims who use that form of dress, it would not appear to be the usual kind of fashion choice that can appeal to anyone in a population, which makes me think there is some underlying negativity in the choice if choice it is. In an open European society covering your face when out in public is, as a letter-writer to the Telegraph said, "a public discourtesy". Scarves that do not cover the face are just a form of hat and not a problem any more than a kippah or a flat cap is.

I haven't read the whole of that Tgraph letter as I do not have a subscription to that paper but the term "public discourtesy" is very apt.

Baggs
But those who have chosen to culturally appropriate this form of dress are in the main British Pakistani or even British women whose parents do not wear this form of clothing so it must be personal choice rather than pressure.
In the Middle East women do wear the Sheila (scarf) and Abaya (black dress) as this is their national dress just as the men wear the dishdasha. They were asked to wear this by the country’s founder as a show of respect for their country and they obliged. A few women wear the veil when outdoors, but it is banned in the workplace and those who will not remove their veil are not employed or sacked.

*joelsnan^, my point is that there exist impositions that force women and girls to wear hair and/face coverings and that the existence of such impositions, whether state or family imposed, support the argument that wearers of such things “cannot stand up for themselves” because if they try to they are punished for it.

Baggs
The Iranian women are protesting against those who require them to wear Shaila's (headscarves) not veils. This requirement only occurred after the Islamic revolution. There is no requirement for them to wear the veil and the majority do not, some do because it is a family tradition. Even the Shaila is worn exposing some of the hair. In the UK there is no government requirement to wear either the headscarf or veil because we are a secular not Islamic state.

The trouble women get into in Iran (like being jailed) for taking off their hijabs supports it too.

I think it is Bullingdon, not ton.

The "daleks/letterboxes cannot stand up for themselves" idea rather supports the point that many people claim about dalek and letterbox-like shrouds: that they are oppressive.

I don't believe anybody is disputing that.

"these people" were in many cases encouraged and enticed to this country on the back of our Colonial involvement.

ethnic minorities is a very large group. I'm not sure who you mean?

oldbatty
I think he can stand up for himself. Whereas the daleks/letter boxes cannot.
This is where the colonial memshaib is demonstrated.
Those who consider those of ethnic minorities are of lower intellectual, educational and mental capacity and must be treated as poor little things.
Although these people choose to come to live here are from other countries they are effectively citizens of the U.K. Their intellectual, educational and mental capacity is exactly the same as ours (often far greater) and this should be acknowledged and respected.

Wait on your own then.

I await an update on the nursery where children are denied face to face contact, the people who think its fun to talk about daleks, post boxes and moving black objects.

You're quite unpleasant aren't you oldbatty?

anyway back to the fictitious nursery

It would appear to be a racist remark and discriminatory against fat people too.

its not all about you.

It isn't is it oldbatty. But where did I say that you were being racist hmm? If you read my post, carefully again, you'll see that I said "isn't causing offence to other ethnicities".

Why not?

what is my own kind

Boris is a male, with a privileged backgound, in a position of power.

I think he can stand up for himself. Whereas the daleks/letter boxes cannot.

I dont think blonde is a race?

Where is the race comment please?

But he is fat

You're beginning to over egg the pudding on being non discriminatory here oldbatty, which is a shame because I was almost with you on this subject. If you were to change the words "fat blonde", to "fat black" you'd offend a great many people, and quite rightly so. Non of us on here have any idea of each other's ethnicity and you should not assume that what you're saying in defence of racism against ethnic minorities, isn't causing offence to other ethnicities. It's a fine line you're treading.