Corbyn / BBC declare social class of employees?

luzdoh. mostlyharmless is from Douglas Adams ‘Hitchiker’s Guide to the Universe”. It’s a description of planet Earth and its inhabitants.
I am mainly soft and cuddly but spiky if very annoyed I guess!

evidence he failed to get into university ?

With 2 E grades at A level he wouldn’t have tried surely

luzdoh If only....

So a maths teacher and an engineer are a "privileged" back ground now are they? There seems to be little evidence that he "failed" to get into a university, as he went off to VSO (something that is surely more laudable). When he left the course on Trade Union Studies after disagreeing with his tutor he had already worked in a Trade Union so possibly did know more about them.

mostlyharmless I just had to answer you because I love your name! I can't decide whether you are soft and cuddly or scary and spiky!
Yes, Oxbridge had a grid system in the 70s for trying to give a fairer entrance assessment to state school children. They were placed further along the grid on the assumption - true because it was researched - that they did not have the privilege of the extra Oxbridge tuition the public school scholars had or even the experienced teachers they had. Now there is no 7th term entry, they still say they try to give state school pupils a fair attempt, knowing they don't have the same preparation.
Life will never be equal but in education we should always be equal. I am extreme. I would ban private schools . But I would make all schools perform to a very high standard or there would be sanctions. I would pay teachers a very high salary but make them perform to a very high standard. That does not mean over-working them. They would be among our cleverest graduates, even in the infants' class. Education would be something the country would be proud of and encompass the breadth of human accomplishments, so gardeners and painters/decorators would be respected as highly as brain surgeons. It sounds too good to be true but if we all did it from the beginning it would work. All the children at school would all wear any kind of standard school clothing of the type bought in chain stores, so it would not be possible to see that one child goes to the posh school with a boater and ribbon on his blazer and the other has a simple black jacket and trousers.
That would begin the equalisation of the class system!
However, the true judge of it is invisible and to do with beliefs and standards. That's another story!

luzdoh Bigotry of any kind has no place when establishing a level playing field.

POGS It seems a very odd idea of JC's but perhaps, looking at his own background of privilege and the fact that despite that he failed to pass exams or get into a top university, that could be an indication of why he wishes to pursue this policy.

Corbyn is step by step going to move everything into state controlled, media, press, what next ? Authors to state their backgrounds before their books can be published

POGS Crumbs! I have a feeling it is to do with people who come from monied parents having better education, better paid jobs and getting into more influential roles. Conversely, the people coming from humbler backgrounds who don't get the chance for the better education and don't get into the higher roles in the same proportion, are not represented in the influential roles. I hope I've not made that too muddled.

While I'm at it - Grammar schools will only give a better education and better life-chances to a small proportion of children who will grow up to be leaders in their work. Wealthy people will get tuition for their kids to pass the 11+, I've seen it (lived and taught in Kent), or even send child to private crammer before taking 11+. How many ordinary parents will be able to do that? Good comprehensives give respect to everybody and should give the same high educational/academic achievement. It is possible. I have seen it. I have no personal axe to grind. I simply do not want a nation where 90% of people start saying "I failed, I'm not clever, I didn't get to a grammar school" and 90% of our children thinking they are now on the second-best pile and give up their aspirations, identifying themselves as not people who become successful or go to university etc.

How is class measured? It isn't whether you use silver tongues for the sugar cubes in your tea any more. It has to do with level of education, work you do, income bracket, the rest I've forgotten and anyway it's probably different now. It's been used in a lot of health research to useful effect for targeting needs for healthcare.

Oxbridge universities now have to monitor the background of students they accept onto courses.
Perhaps the BBC should do the same and the civil service and other public bodies. It might mean that in future more allowance is made for the more difficult circumstances of some candidates for example a slightly lower grade could be required for comprehensive school applicants.
It’s would only be a monitoring exercise. We have data collected about us all the time.
I realise that for us grans social-economic background and social class seems a bit irrelevant, but for youngsters it’s an important influence on their life chances.

So what to do about those who attended Grammar Schools?

What to do about those who attended private schools?

What to do with those who went to top universities?

Will the Labour Party throw out anybody who attended the above in the party , employed by Labour or are in the Shadow Cabinet or Labour MP's?

Or is it not an issue when it comes to left wing politics / policies, just for others.

What does this bigotry say to a generation of youngsters working hard in whatever type of school they attend? Don't aim to go to a top University because you will be deemed as perversely unworthy of employment , you will be seen as some sort of Social Class that must be avoided for the purpose of the Socialist political dogma that Class is to be what? Eradicated.

We will see the burning of books next.

However, you are not at present asked questions about your parentage.

You are currently asked questions about your ethnicity, and your gender and actually you fill in your education on any applicatiion form so it is simply a case of using the information already known.

Exactly! That's what Corbyn is trying to tackle. Privilege, and money leads to much better educational opportunities, (including getting into grammar schools or charitable foundation schools through expensive tutoring), private schooling, and then the best universities.
Corbyn, of course, is the exception which proves the rule.

When I was at school, everyone sat the 11+ and a minority progressed to grammar school. The majority went to secondary modern schools, their academic education effectively over

Perhaps the town where I lived was an exception to that because many of my friends went on to the secondary modern school and did extremely well there and went on to FE or to train for very good jobs afterwards. They did have a stream which took GCEs.
The high school, on the other hand, spent a great deal of time drumming into the 'gels' just how stupid they were.

We did have secondary education segregated by sex - perhaps that was a plus for the education of girls.

Perhaps they do JA but the qualifications required for most professional jobs have increased accordingly. You will find few lecturers now with less than a Masters Degree and most have or are working towards a PhD. At the same time the provision for children from poor backgrounds has been cut and we know that poor nutrition in childhood leads to poor academic performance so in a few years time the gap between those children and their better off counterparts will be significantly wider.
Actually lemon the health checks aren't there. When I was at school you were checked at 5, 10 and 15. You were also checked if you chose to work with children. There is no school doctor now and no school clinics. When I was first teaching in a deprived area I could send children to a nearby clinic to have minor wounds dressed. They were also treated there for scabies and impetigo. The care given to children who were neglected was much bettter than it is now.

mostly harmless / Eloethan

" Eloethan said

There is increasing concern that senior positions in both the public and private sector are dominated by privately educated people, despite the fact that they only represent around 7% of the population.

Exactly! That's what Corbyn is trying to tackle. Privilege, and money leads to much better educational opportunities, (including getting into grammar schools or charitable foundation schools through expensive tutoring), private schooling, and then the best universities. "

If you practice what you preach what would you have done with them?

Does your concern about somebody's Social Class go across the board or just the BBC?

What problem would you have with for example David Attenborough or Tony Benn creating a documentary for the BBC. ? After all they would be two candidates that you appear to take issue with along with Corbyn and presumably the Labour Party.

you would have been given orange juice as a baby and free milk at school.
That was because there was a lack of food due to rationing after WW2 trisher. We also had cod liver oil.

The milk was disgusting in the summer months - it's a wonder we were not ill with the lack of refrigeration.

Will the Newspapers be next?

Will the Guardian, The Daily Mail , have to declare the Social Class of it's employees, journalists?

If not why not?

What lies behind wanting to know.?

What or who is going to be deemed from the right or wrong Social Class and what will be done about it.?

Would for example Polly Toynbee be ' out ' because of her Social Class and replaced by Kevin Maquire because he would be classed as ' in ' fitting the criteria of Corbyns Class warfare.?

trisher I remember all that very well, but you have not answered my question.
I am not denying there is shameful deprivation in our society today.

But a much higher proportion of young people today benefit from higher education than they did in the 50s and 60s.

Health checks and free education are still here btw.
Uni grants had to go a long time ago, as more and more students went on to higher education.

Eloethan said
There is increasing concern that senior positions in both the public and private sector are dominated by privately educated people, despite the fact that they only represent around 7% of the population.

Exactly! That’s just what Corbyn’s plan is trying to tackle. Privilege, and money leads to much better educational opportunities, (including getting into grammar schools or charitable foundation schools through expensive tutoring), private schooling, and then the best universities. During their school and university career, these more privileged children will make important new contacts in the “old boys’ network”. Their family and friends’ network will help them into the best internships and more lucrative jobs.

Grammar schools used to help bright working class children, but the system is now being manipulated by the “sharp elbowed” middle classes, just because they can.

I was a grammar school girl myself, but feel that an excellent education should be available to every child, not just those with parents who can tutor or who can pay for tuition.

trisher you calling GNers ( that you don’t agree with )
‘Old farts’ is quite ridiculous..... you are an old fart yourself I believe?
Have got used to you claiming to be the only one on here with a conscience ( drive smug eh?)

Whether or not the likes of Kinnock and Benn traded on their parents reputation that is ' nepotism' but that is nothing to do with Social Class.

Nepotism is not the domain of any class.

A genuine question albeit hypothetical.

If Tony Benn who came from a highly privileged background had produced a BBC documentary why would his Social Class need to be known? What reason other than possible bigotry does a persons Social Class have any bearing on the matter?

What lies behind having to declare your Social Status to so called be ' transparent' .

If it is for the purpose of 'Inclusion' then I'm sorry this is the road to ' Exclusion ' and who will be the judge and jury, politicians ?

janeainsworth you probably don't remember but you would have had frequent health checks as a child, you would have been given orange juice as a baby and free milk at school. If your parents were not working you would have had a free meal at school even during the holidays. At secondary level there were grants to help with uniform and books. In other words your physical health (very important to your ability to learn) was well cared for. Even if you attended a sec mod you could access education for free in later life if you chose to do so.
There has been a steady reduction in all of these things in the past few years.