Corbyn / BBC declare social class of employees?

If class is seen as relating to all sorts of other issues like hobbies, how money is spent, "taste", etc, etc, I feel, as others do, that these elements vary so much from person to person that there is little value in trying to analyse them. However, my understanding is that the principal components establishing "class" are education, employment and income. The majority of people's income is derived from the job they do. In turn, the jobs that people do are very much dependent on their education - and one of the determinants of a good education is income - so these factors are inter-dependent.

There may be individual cases of plumbers (such as the plumber who runs Pimlico Plumbers and is now a millionaire) and other trades people being very comfortably off and a small minority being able to afford private schooling in the top prep and public schools. However, a 2010 table of the highest earning jobs shows this:

1. Head of major organisation
2. Medical practitioner
3. Aircraft pilot
4. Senior national government officer
5. Dentist
6. Business manager/Chartered Secretary
7. Senior Police Officer
8. Energy manager
9. Business/financial broker
10. Senior local government officer

The lowest paid workers are:

1. Waiting staff
2. Bar staff
3. Elementary sales assistants
4. Kitchen/catering
5. Hairdresser
6. Cashier/checkout worker
7. theme park attendant
8. launderer/dry cleaner
9. fishmonger/poultry dresser
10. Shelf filler

The Guardian reported in 2013:

"Inter-generational changes in class are still small. In 2010, the link between individual and parental earnings was found to be the strongest in the UK than any other OECD country. Many argue that the British educational system can reproduce and reinforce these trends. A 2012 report from the OECD found that British schools were more socially segregated than in any other developed country."

I think this is the crux of the matter and one of the reasons why the notion of social mobility is, in the main, an illusory one. In fact, I believe research shows that there is a reversal in even the small amount of social mobility that there was.

75% of our judges, around 50-59% of our cabinet, 50% of our diplomats, 47% of our newspaper columnist, 33% of our BBC executives, etc. etc. etc. have been to Oxbridge (and are overwhelmingly more likely to have received a private education). I believe we need to start thinking about how other progressive countries have been more successful in enabling women, and people from all social, economic and ethnic backgrounds to be more fairly represented at higher levels of office.

There are quite a few presenters who started their careers in local Beeb studios

Most parents, even those with reasonable incomes find that supporting their children through university drains their resources. With the amount needed per year reckoned to be £22000 and student loans only totalling a possible £17000 outside London and £20000 in London there is a significant amount needed to fill the gap.Of course students can work but those on difficult courses(like medicine) don't have the time. I wonder if we will see a fall in the numbers of poorer children doing these courses?
And supporting someone through an internship would really break the bank,

The whole business of internships is very discriminatory.

How many ordinary young people can afford to live and work in London without being paid?

Only those supported by the bank of Mum and Dad.

So sorry Elegran and POGS, quite worrying, I knew it was you POGS but typed your name Elegran. duh

Perhaps there should be a question on the application form on the lines of "Do you (or your family, for young interns) know any employee of this organisation socially?" And in the notes "It should be noted that canvassing for preference in this appointment is not permitted, and could result in your application being refused" Not that they believe they are actually "canvassing for preference" - Daddy just happened to mention on the golf course that his daughter was considering the media as a career and XXXX said "Tell her to apply for an internship." But how do you stop Daddy mentioning his daughter to his golfing partner? Give all interns reasonable pay that alllows those without private means to get experience too.

No, that was POGS, Anniebach.

Anniebach

I don't that is Elegrans style but it is mine.

PECS/POGS scenario?

What difference does it make to reporting the news depend on a persons family background ?

Elegran is so right, it is the old class warfare bigotry raising it’s head yet again.

Perhaps the fact that the present DG of the BBC is the son of a banker is the problem.

But he did come from Birkenhead, not the south-east which should count in his favour.

If the people responsible for these sorts of decisions come primarily from a very narrow range of society, there is a real possibility that the decisions they make are influenced by their own experience, views and values and do not reflect wider society.

It is a non-sequitur. If social class influenced political leanings then there would be no rich Labour MPs or members of Momentum, many of whom did and still do come from privileged backgrounds.

trisher/Eloethan

What Social Class would you put David Attenborough in?

I have asked
" What lies behind having to declare your Social Status to so called be ' transparent' . To be ' transparent ' then why not have to declare your political allegiances, your race, your sexual orientation, wealth etc ?

If you believe Corbyn/Labour Party are right then what would you do about knowing the Social Class of somebody?

Questions nobody has answered to my knowledge and I am genuinely interested why Social Class is deemed as being the criteria for the purpose of ' transparency ' above others.

Having taken on board all comments I remain of the opinion this is nothing short of the old divide and rule , class warfare bigotry of the old days of Militant et al.

If it is for the purpose of 'Inclusion' then I'm sorry this is the road to ' Exclusion ' and who will be the judge and jury, politicians ? The Free press is already under threat from those who are promoting this class warfare and thereby hangs another tale.

Who will be the Saints and the Sinners of the media? Who will decide ? I find the guise of the need to know a persons Social Class for supposed ' transparency' nothing more than a dangerous slippery road to Social Engineering and history tells us where things can quietly end up.

First they came for -
Then they came for me.

As trisher says, the point being made is that people in influential senior positions, such as those in the media, law, politics etc., have a huge amount of power over other people's lives.

Obtaining, for instance, a trade apprenticeship does not confer such power or influence. Builders, plumbers, electricians, etc., do not decide which stories are going to be covered in the newspapers or on the TV news, and how they will be presented. They do not decide which potentially controversial documentary or exposé brought to them by independent film makers will be accepted for broadcast. If the people responsible for these sorts of decisions come primarily from a very narrow range of society, there is a real possibility that the decisions they make are influenced by their own experience, views and values and do not reflect wider society.

Yes, I understand.

I mentioned London, but of course, much comes from Salford nowadays.
We don't live there either.

And the way to ensure that people from all walks of life apply for internships is to pay the interns. Then the youngsters who want to try it out from the very bottom of the ladder can do so on that level playing field we are all so keen on.

How on earth do these organisations get away with free labour anyway? If a hairdresser takes on a Saturday girl to wash hair and sweep floors, they expect to pay her for her time. No wonder the press barons are multimillionaires.

Do people not understand (and I know I'm going to get lot's of posts about plasterers who became MPs!!!!) that this is the mainstream media we are talking about. Not local jobs, but news which is relayed into our homes everyday. And the only way to ensure that there is propery balanced news is to ensure that the people recruited come from all walks of life (much like MPs used to.)

I agree M0nica
and Elegran

Often those who have family living in London have a better chance of getting on to the bottom rung of the ladder in tv etc because they can continue to live at home, pay no rent and subsist on the very low salaries which seem to be the norm.

so they didn't have to work but would be able to spend their time doing little projects to add to their CV

My DD managed to take on little projects which went on her CV as well as doing a degree, working part-time - from which part-time work she was offered a very interesting career (which she did not follow up, but the opportunity was there).

I have said I have been sorting through applications for apprenticeships, my brother ,it’s his firm, phoned me and said he wanted a family friends grandson to be given an apprenticeship so i had to remove another youngster off the list. Years ago my brother decided not to go to university but take an apprenticeship in the building trade, my parents were disappointed but supported him, my father had a word with the boss of a local firm and my brother got his apprenticeship, he had every intention of one day having his own firm, which he did and has been very successful, due to my father asking a friend to give him that apprenticeship

Isn't that what Monica just said? That it "is not a problem of class, but of money"^ If the internships were paid ones, young people whose parents can't afford to bankroll them would get a lookin at the bottom of the ladder.

Connections? - ah, but suppose you are a friend of a plasterer and he takes on your son for his week's unpaid "work experience" where he discovers that he likes the work and they get on well together, so when the plasterer needs an employee your son applies and is taken on. You can't legislate to stop people moving in whatever social circles they want.

So do you not think M0nica that someone who has paid for their child to attend private school and subsidised tham through university (so they didn't have to work but would be able to spend their time doing little projects to add to their CV) won't then be the people supporting their child through an internship? And it isnt just money you need, you need to know the right people. Very few people have the wealth needed to see their child through all of these things and the connections to pursue them.
And if you want personal stories someone doing temp work at a mainstream paper was asked how she got the job when she talked about her previous experience the comment was made "Oh so you know what you're doing and not just someone high up."

I think you have explained perfectly MOnica

Going back to the start of this topic, JC wants to make media hubs like the BBC more diverse as he believes it is in the hands of a narrow middle class clique.

This weekend DD and I have been discussing the subject. She has worked in the media for over 20 years, nearly 10 years with the BBC and longer with a company associated with the BBC.

She says that the problem with the narrowness of the social mix in the upper echelons of the BBC - and other media-, is not a problem of class, but of money.

The factor that limits entry to the key sectors of the media is the poisonous system of Internships. Six month/1 year unpaid or very poorly paid 'work experience' contracts.

Unless an intern has wealthy parents who can afford to subsidise them through one, two or even three internships, then their chance of getting a properly paid job and developing a career in the media is very small.

DD made her way in because she was a 'techie', she designed and edited websites, so wasn't looking for a frontline media role. She would have liked a career on the creative side, and was offered internships, but we were not in a position to subsidise her.

Money is not a class thing. There are plenty of wealthy people about who started their working lives as mechanics, plasterers or factory workers but made good.

As I have said, ad nauseum, 'class' is all about Labour's antediluvian attitudes. Its money that counts and the two do not necessarily go together.

janeainsworth could you try not to take the things I say out of context. I didn't introduce miners I was posting about how nepotism is responsible for some people having jobs in the media and politics

That’s pretty good coming from someone who wrote on the previous page

Isn't it funny how arguments are conducted on GN. The main idea being to distract or derail a thread when actually you can't disprove or really disagree with it

i had huge respect for Tony Benn and his principles
You might not have done if you walked along the sea all on the Blackwater river where his house is/was.
He blocked off a mile of sea wall so the riffraff couldn't look into his garden.
If the tide was out you were ok, you could walk on the 'beach', if not, you had a long detour around Stansgate Manor, the family home.
It's all documented.