Allegations against Alex Salmond.

If AS is proved to be guilty, I will be very annoyed with him for creating such a public fuss about his innocence as well as for the original offences.
I hope he is proved to be innocent, however.

Do I trust my own instincts about this man whom I have known for so long, or stick with my preset stance of always supporting the victim of abuse?
I think, Granny23 that all you can do is adopt a 'wait and see' policy.
Some of the nicest, most gentlemanly men have turned out to have feet of clay when it comes to this kind of thing and pick their victims carefully.
Sometimes victims prove to be fabricating stories for revenge or for another reason.

I do hope we get to the truth of the matter.

I came across this report on the situation. Towards the end, it briefly describes the complaints process. It doesn't seem as if making public the complaints or the investigation results should form any part of the process yet the FM stated that that was the intention of the Permanent Secretary.
www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/holyrood/1548408/alex-salmond-admits-he-is-no-saint-but-strongly-denies-sexual-harassment-claims/

I respect Granny23's obviously heartfelt post. She clearly shows the distress and concern that so many feel.
As to the outcome - time will tell.

Granny23 I understand your turmoil but am surprised at you saying

In this case I do not know the complainers, nor the substance of the complaints.

As I said earlier, in last week's Sunday Times one of his accusers was named, presumably with her consent, and the details were quite explicit - touching of breasts and lying on top of her. I think she was a civil servant.

Also, in his BBC interview he says 'I'm no saint, I've got flaws'.

As a feminist, how would you normally interpret that phrase? Isn't it often shorthand for the office pest who is, at the very least, too touchy-feely, gives excessive hugs and is quite frankly a total pain the arse for the women who have to work for such a man in a more senior position. I expect many of us suffered this in the past.

What do you think he meant by being no saint, bearing in mind the nature of the interview?

the supposed relationship between Alex and Tasmina Ahmed Sheik
Oh - surely not!! I am sure he is a man who likes to get a word in edgeways.

I understand why you want him to be proved innocent Granny23 and he may well be.
However you know what they say about husbands who have affairs, the wife is the last to know, so you could also be wrong about him.
Nobody should be judged beforehand, so the old 'waiting and seeing' [rarely popular] is the best bet.

Alex Salmod was known as a hard taskmaster who expected civil servants to pull their weight and make every penny of the budget work for Scotland. As does the current Scottish Government under Nicola Sturgeon.
Compare and contrast with the previous labour administration at Holyrood, who enjoyed a cosier relationship with the Scottish civil service and succeeded in returning over one billion pounds unspent to Westminster.

I don't know who you are addressing in your last post but I will answer on my behalf.

You can have no idea the turmoil I have been in over the past week or so. As a life long feminist, 18.5 years as a worker at Women's Aid and campaigner for women's rights, my natural reaction is to believe the complainers and support their bravery in coming forward.

But, But, But....................

In this case I do not know the complainers, nor the substance of the complaints. I do know the accused and have done for some 40 years. I also know his wife, Moira. I have had the big hug from AS on more than one occasion and have never felt it to be inappropriate or OTT. I have been trying to find the right word for AS's manner - the closest I can get is 'Avuncular'.

I also have friendships with many women in the SNP. All feisty, feminist women who would not be backward in coming forward if they had any reason to complain about a man irregardless of his position, be it ordinary member, candidate, Party Leader or First Minister. In fact the Convener of my own Branch was reported and flung out of the party 30+ years ago for touchy feely behaviour. The SNP, in common with any large organisation, has had examples of misogyny/abuse and has dealt with them promptly and severely.

However, in the case of Alex Salmond, I can say, hand on heart, that I have never, ever heard so much as a whisper about any questionable behaviour, neither from his fans nor those who belong to other factions within the party. The only place I have encountered hints of the nudge, nudge, wink wink variety is in the mainstream media e.g the supposed relationship between Alex and Tasmina Ahmed Sheik, illustrated with a photograph of them laughing together at a restaurant table in Italy. What was missing from the picture was the two other people who were also sitting at the table laughing. They had been carefully cropped out.

Hence my turmoil. Do I trust my own instincts about this man whom I have known for so long, or stick with my preset stance of always supporting the victim of abuse? The only way I can resolve this dilemma is if this is a put up job, designed to create a 'no smoke without fire' stench around a prominent player in the SNP and broader YES campaign. Time will tell, but the damage has already been done.

Of course, it's a stitch up [ why? ] How about waiting to see....it may well Not be a stitch up!
Can't believe he asked for crowd funding, what a cheek.

Oh well so that's all right then. Grope away boys!!
Women won't dare complain now.

From Granny23's post :

"Part of the legal argument is that AS is no longer 'employed' by the SG and these new rules were not in force when he was. Also as an ex employee he has no right to know the details of the complaint nor to challenge them within the system."

Surely he can't be treated as an employee and subject to the rules, while also being treated as an ex-employee who can't be given any details?
There should be consistency there.

think you'll find that I was talking about Teresa May .Silly me didn't put the name of the poster I was replying to

Granny23 its a stitch up ,soley to get Alex out of the way when the new date for Indy ref2 is announced .WE know it ,the press know it and the Scottish Office which really has no interest in Scotland apart from our income knows it.Well they would since its all of their doing !

It has been pointed out to me today that the civil servants involved are not employed by the Scottish Government per se but rather by the 'Scotland Office' whose Boss is the Secretary of State for Scotland, currently the Tory David Mundell, who was elevated to this position during the last Parliament when he was the only Tory who represented a Scottish Constituency. The Secretary of State for Scotland has been described as 'Scotland's Man at Westminster' or alternatively 'Westminsters man in Scotland' .

"The Office of the Secretary of State for Scotland supports the Secretary of State in promoting the best interests of Scotland within a stronger United Kingdom. It ensures Scottish interests are fully and effectively represented at the heart of the UK Government, and the UK Government’s responsibilities are fully and effectively represented in Scotland."

In the early days of the Scottish Parliament with Labour in control of the Scottish and UK Governments, there was a cosy relationship between the S of S and the parliament but the gloves came off when there was an SNP controlled SG and a Tory Government at Westminster. The relationship has been acrimonious ever since.

This realisation has edged me into the camp of those who believe that there has been 'dirty work at the crossroads' including the leaks to the so called 'Scottish Press' which is editorially controlled and owned furth of Scotland.

One of his accusers is named.
Interesting Riverwalk

I do think it is most unfair when someone (usually a man) is accused of impropriety, named and often 'shamed' when the victim/accuser can remain anonymous.

Even if proven innocent, people will still mutter that 'there is no smoke without fire' etc

I think Paddyann was talking about Theresa May! No surprise there!!!!??

I, too, am now I have looked back at that post.

Perhaps Paddyann is quoting someone else but didn't use the ^^

am confused by your post paddyann the one which says
of Nichola Sturgeon 'Can't stand the woman, she has been a total disaster for Scotland and the whole of the UK and I have no idea why anyone voted for her and her loathesome party of incompetents' etc
Now, you may well be right about that, plenty would agree,
but I thought you admired her?

paddyann

Re your post Sat 01-Sep-18 23:51:10.

" Your last paragraph is exactly why I said about the Alex Salmond scenario.

" That is a principal that many MP's have come up against but it hasn't stopped the kangaroo court who usually behave in an accusatory manner , sometimes verging on slander to promote their political allegiance.

The worst of them all was the Westminster Peadophile Ring accusations that were based on lies, political point scoring and the public being spurred on by those who see Social Class to be ' fair game "

I think Alex Salmond has certainly made a name for himself away from the SNP as has Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh. Whether it be his ' unleashed ' show and likewise the Alex Salmond Show on Russia Today etc. a new career path opened.

Now he has resigned from the SNP and chosen the route of crowd funding I do wonder if that may sway opinions but for those such as yourself that has been done and viewed as an admirable choice he has made so maybe I am wrong in thinking others might see it differently.

I hope Alex Salmond gets a fair hearing, unlike so many politicians who have had their reputation and lives destroyed by the kangaroo court and political foul play as we have noted . Perhaps there are those who should reflect on what they have said about others in this predicament in the past.

Other news media have not been so kind:

Alex Salmond has been accused of "dragging Scotland into the gutter" for crowdfunding a legal bid to challenge the handling of sexual harassment allegations against him.
news.sky.com/story/alex-salmond-accused-of-dragging-scotland-into-gutter-as-crowdfunding-bid-passes-target-11485396

PADDYANN My post about Alex Salmond setting up a crowdfunding page, to which you replied, was entirely factual and not biased or partisan in any way. I merely stated the facts as reported in The Guardian.

Alex Salmond has closed a crowdfunding appeal to fund a judicial review of the Scottish government’s handling of sexual harassment allegations against him

If you think that is FAKE NEWS then please COMPLAIN VERY LOUDLY to:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/snp-seeks-to-refocus-on-policies-amid-salmond-allegations

So WHY you have to SHOUT in your response to me IS BEWILDERING.

Or is that how you normally go about your day, SHOUTING and RANTING?

I find that rather ODD considering what BUSINESS you told us you have.

Men have faced charges of sexual abuse after 20 years.

Any leader or manager will always have to make decisions wether to discipline, demote, dismiss or direct staff this leaves them open to accusations of bias, bullying or harassment. Especially by sensitive groups where sexist, racist, ageist accusations can be made, 5 yrs on they are very difficult to prove or disprove.
An accusation of wrongdoing is to be made do it immediately or move on and live with it.

Good gracious Paddyann. You donated to his crowd funding page. Who'd have thought it?!
Sorry I couldn't be bothered to put sections of this post in CAPITALS!

He could of course have left it to run ,the Clara Ponsati page raised over a quarter of a million as far as I remember .And yes I donated to that too .