4 Day Week

As far as I can see, it could mean prices go up. Those people working fewer hours for the same money will find that they have to spend more on certain things, so they will get a second job (if they can find one) for the other three days to boost their income.

I can see the logic of what you’re saying ilovecheese it’s whether it works in practice.

Since I stopped work, I don’t spend more. I spend considerably less. Those extra days haven’t equated spending more on food, clothes, leisure activities. It isn’t that I’m hard up. I just don’t want any more of those things than I had before.

In fact because I have time to buy what I need I don’t buy things I don’t need but bought just in case I needed them and didn’t have time to get them.

So I’m not sure your theory works. Sorry. I’m happy to see some proof though. ?

My DS and DDIL have both done compressed hours in their time. At present both work full-time hours, one over four days and the other over five days flexitime, and between them they can sort out their childcare and the school run. It won’t suit every worker, or every employer, but it can be a very useful option for both.

Very interesting. The UK average years wages are about £25,000, which actually cost an employer £46,146 (and 61 pence)

Ooooh! Here is a ready-reckoner calculator for the cost of an employee. You put in the hours and the hourly rate, it adds the other costs and tells you how much it really costs. For each extra employee, a business has to make at least that much extra to make it worthwhile, and that is not just in turnover.
www.accountingservicesforbusiness.co.uk/calculators1/true-cost-of-an-employee/
I am going to put a few figures into this and see what comes out!

When I clicked on this thread, I got a GN pop-up 'How to find work over 50'.

Does anyone else remember the ideas floating around a few years ago about us all being able to retire at 50 or 55 on large pensions?

for most people and also employers, this 4 day week idea won't work.

there will always be people that it would suit, but at the moment, not all that many I should think.

also, most only want an 8 hour day at most.

How do artificial intelligence and automation help a small shopkeeper, cafe, hairdresser, social service worker, teacher, nurse, doctor, dentist, to do their job with customers/clients who need appointments or attention seven days a week, sometimes twentyfour hours a day?

Those who work on an appointments system can only meet people when the appointment time suits the client. If the client is working four days a week, maybe for longer hours, they will want appointments on one of their three days off. So someone else will have to be employed on some of those three days. Great for extra jobs, perhaps, but not for the employer, who will have the extra employment costs of another person, so will have to raise their prices to cover them. Those who have never employed anyone else may not know the real cost of an extra hand.

Where there needs to be full-time cover that could mean even more costs.

It is all very well to complain about posters pointing out the negative possibilities, but if no-one pointed them out they could come as a shock when prices go up and convenience goes down. Then we would hear complaints that people (like the small employers who have posted on here, who know what they are talking about) were taking advantage of the change in hours to raise prices for their own greed.

The idea (in theory anyway) is great, but the dangers need discussing too.

The world changes all the time, We all have to adapt to survive. Businesses are no different. As for schools, should they just be seen as a childminding service? Or could a four day week be an opportunity for a new kind of childminding service and another job created?

It would be a minefield, what about education? Would school only be 4 days a week?

Scheduling childcare and routines would be a nightmare. What happens if the 4 days parents work differed from the school days? or would it just be a case of Grandparents picking up the pieces even more.

Haven't seen any "knee jerk reactions " on this thread Grandad, only general discussion of the implementation of a possible 4 day week and all it entails.

A bricklayer out of work will not afford to visit riding stables or a theme park.

Well, everybody does that.

The men in our firm work to pay the morgage, feed their families.

We live in a very mixed economy now, so many of our businesses are leisure industries, I like small shop too, but business is not sentimental, one shops missing worker for the day is another business's extra customer for the day.

Family time, for instance, could mean more business for a soft play centre, a theme park, a riding stables, a fair etc.

Even staying at home might mean buying another computer game that could well have been designed in this country.

For adults, another free day might mean more business for a restaurant, a pub, a visitor attraction.

We have to adapt as society changes, we have no choice.

I do not believe that the TUC are calling for this to be compulsory legislation at this point, but that it should be "a discussion item between employers and their employees. In the Road Transport Industry, four-day working has been in existence for a Considerable number of years.

In the above, employees work continuous weeks of four ten hour days followed by three days off making a rolling forty hours over seven days with weekend working inclusive. The forgoing suits both employees and employers even in small companies and means highly expensive vehicles and warehouse equipment can have double shifts over the seven days and also double, or treble shifts carried out within that maximising vehicle and other equipment use.

Of course, all industries are different and require individual analysis of their requirements. In my own company (industrial safety) we have several working methods and patterns which includes flexible working from home, flexible hours of start and finish, job share and rolling week working with two employees. Working from home does not suit every employee even where it is possible and rolling week working would also be similar.

Those who have to travel as a large part of their employment within our company are very much tied to Monday to Friday (on occasion Saturday) working with hours being "Whatever it takes" which is reflected in their salaries and bonuses.

Therefore virtually all industries and employment situations are different depending on the employee's position and the tasks to be carried out. The key in that we find is continuous week by week business need analysis involving employee discussion in those manning requirements.

Large-scale four-day working could hold many benefits for Britain and its workforce. In that, the "knee-jerk" reaction against the proposals we have seen on this thread (even among those who claim they hold Labour/socialist beliefs) are entirely unfounded. Reducing workers hours will be a process of planning and negotiation if all the benefits of artificial intelligence are not to be gained by a few in large multinationals.

Now coffee break over I had better get my head down again or I will be working Saturday.

Increased automation has been progressing for at least 200 yrs but we are just as busy as we always were. It has made labour easier at the expense of more stress, we now have all sorts of machines in the home to make it easier, so we go out to work, then we can spend more on the things we want.
A 4 day week would only give us more time to spend the cash we earn, those of us that work part time at present do so because it gives us a better work life balance, and we can afford to do that.

It works when you are dealing with “stuff” perhaps. Paperwork or making things. It won’t work when employees are dealing with people will it?

Say a shop assistant. If your worker is only in for four days at the same pay as when they worked five days, you will have to find the extra money to employ someone for the fifth day.

Any service industry really that’s needs people. Enough to put small concerns ( those individual shops that I love) out of business.

I so understand GrannyGravy , if my brother has even more pressure he will retire, that’s men out of work

We deliver to sites to our account customers, we have had to absorb, higher fuel costs, insurance has increased, and if we go into London have to pay the congestion charge. None of these have been passed on to customers because if we put our prices up there are several big national tool/fixing companies who sell items at less than cost.

Exactly GrannyGravy, it will have a knock on effect , the companies we buy supplies from would be in the same position as you .Small companies who deliver will be affected too.

Anniebach, totally agree, we supply the small builders and local contractors. If they cannot work, they do not buy supplies.

We still have wages to pay, overhead costs (higher in the winter with heating and more lights on etc). Small merchants like us would be caught in the middle of the big boy suppliers ( have to buy even when business is quiet to get trade discounts and try and avoid increases in steel whenever possible) and our loyal customers.

This idea has not been thought through to the end of the supply and demand chain.

Oldmeg One of my daughters does that too.

Builders can’t work on in the winter months, difficult putting a roof on in the dark

Grannygravy13, yes, you are right, it was large scale manufacturing that I was thinking about.