The Last Days of Mrs May?

Well, Theresa May has most certainly had a very bad day today (20/09/18)

Whatever could go wrong did go wrong. For once she does have my very genuine sympathy for it seems she now has no supporters anywhere.

I feel she may resign over the weekend but I hope I am wrong.

Can I point out that the Chequers proposal was just that. Not a deal or an agreement

smileless2012, The alternative the EU are offering is a Norway deal where associate membership is regulated by EEA ( EU by any other name) Norway have their own Fisheries and Farming policies and some other differences. They pay a great deal into the EU for this independance
Norway is not a major industrial economy, quite different to the UK so they can afford that, although it is the highest taxed country in Europe.

The EU is a club with rules and all members have to obey them, the U.K is asking to have them changed giving it special advantages, obviously the EU is refusing that. Imagine Arsenal Football club wanting to play the game by different rules that suited them better, they would go to the FA and argue their case. If all the other clubs wanted to stay the same Arsenal would either have to concede, or go and play in another league.

The principles are exactly the same either accept the majority or go and play a different game.

I don't foresee any deal being approved by parliament for 2 reasons.
Paying for EEA membership and EU regulation.
Having a soft border of some kind in Ireland.

If there is "No Deal" there WILL be a hard border in Ireland and we now realise just how far reaching Brexit changes will be. So what happens when parliament rejects the deal.
Either
Brexit happens, we set in motion leave with no deal
Or
A second referendum
Or
Parliament as a whole decides to ignore the referendum and remain without a second one - they have the power to do that, just like they have the power to declare war.

Theresa May does not matter she will not have a majority to do anything.

Smileless2012, again with every respect, how can the EU allow Britain to obtain a trade agreement with only the free movement of goods, services and capital but not the free movement of people without "ripping up" the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties to accommodate that?

Britain wishes to come to an agreement whereby the movement of capital, services and goods can continue with as little disruption as possible, for the benefit of Britain and the EU.

As I suspected when I responded to your previous post, no one as suggested that the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties be ripped up.

Tusk has said today that sections of the Chequers agreement need to be re worked. Typical of the EU though, is that they once again haven't come up with any alternatives.

IMO if Northern Ireland wants to remain a part of the EU and the EU wants them to remain, the EU needs to work with TM to find a solution to the border problem.

Smileless2012, Britain wishes to retain the free movement of capital, services and goods on leaving the European Union but not the free movement of people.

However, the above make up the four freedoms which are at the core of the European Union being. In that any country wishing trade within the EU must accept all four freedoms or none at all will be offered under the rules of the Maastricht and Lisbon Treaties.

Therefore, Smileless2012, could you please explain how the EU are supposed to "negotiate" allowing Britain to have a trade agreement on leaving with only three of the core four freedoms without "ripping up" the above treaties?

Has anyone requested that the EU "rip up the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties ..... just to accommodate Britain leaving?

IMO the EU has been making things difficult for Britain, not because we're cherry picking but because they want to make an example of us to deter any other member state from taking the decision to leave.

The big mistake our negotiators made was believing that the EU would negotiate. I find it rather bemusing that for some, our negotiations are viewed as demands and the EU's demands are regarded as negotiations.

Smileless2012, Quote [snip>>> The EU countries are not going to agree to any deal that gives the UK the ability to cherry pick what it likes, because then every other member will want to do the same.<<<snip]

Smileless2012, in regard to your above post, the European Union has what is known as the four freedoms which make up the core of its being. In that, it is the free movement of goods, services, capital and people that all twenty-eight nations making up the European Union have freely signed up to, by way of the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties which included the United Kingdom.

In the above, Britain wishes to retain the free movement of capital, services and goods on leaving the European Union but not the free movement of people. The EU cannot offer such an agreement to Britain as that would transgress both the above treaties. Therefore, it not the European Union that is being "difficult" in the leave negotiations, but it is Britain requesting terms that the EU simply cannot grant.

Perhaps the leave campaign should have made the above clear to the British electorate during the Brexit referendum campaign, or had they not realised that fact themselves probably due to lack of simple research and knowledge.

The above would seem to be the case as David Davis the then UK chief leave negotiator stated on the day that article fifty was signed, "these will be the easiest negotiations ever concluded.".

What a joke when the leave leaders have proved to be totally incompetent by way of two years of bungled negotiations demanding terms which cannot be given. That situation has left many sectors of Britains industry and commerce desperate in not knowing what post-Brexit will hold. In that, many are now finding great difficulty in signing new customer and supplier contracts for future fulfilment.

It is not the European Union that is making things difficult for Britain; it is Britain making things difficult for itself. Did our negotiators really believe that the other twenty-seven EU nations would rip up the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties to which they all signed just to accommodate Britain leaving?

Taking responsibility for what happens in Gov. is one thing Grandad although I wonder how you would address the back stabbers who agreed to Chequers in her presence and then proceeded to slate her for it behind her back.

She cannot take, or be held responsible for the EU blocking proposals at every turn. Mr. S., a remainer, gave a good analogy of the EU's so called negotiating skills the other day. He said it's like a teacher setting an essay and on receipt of the finished article saying 'no, that's wrong go away and do it again' without giving any assistance as to what s/he is looking for and would find acceptable.

The "limited support of the chief brexit negotiator" which has come very late in the day isn't IMO because the EU believes if there is no deal, we will be staring into the abyss, it's because they'll be staring into the abyss too.

No deal is as bad for the EU as it is for us so it's about time they stopped behaving like petulant children, expressing their annoyance that we no longer want to be in their club, and started doing what TM has been trying to do since the referendum result and Cameron jumped ship. They should be negotiating.

In the scheme of things, a very small number indeed but several of our acquaintances and Mr. S., who voted remain would vote leave if there were to be a second referendum due to the intransigence and bad behaviour of the EU.

Smokeless that made me laugh. I was called that sometime ago on another thread. The reason for my amusement? I smoke but maybe one day I will be smokeless.

I have every confidence that TM will agree a deal, wether parliament will accept it is entirely different. Neither Tories or Labour want a deal that involves the EU pulling the strings and overseeing every aspect, to be honest neither do I want that
Norway as a member of EEA is strictly regulated by an office in Brussels, it is a permanent arrangement, not one that Gove envisages, which can be negotiated year by year. The EU countries are not going to agree to any deal that gives the UK the ability to cherry pick what it likes, because then every other member will want to do the same.
Wether Labour and others will push Parliament for a second referendum is not yet clear, if not we are out, paddling our own canoe.

Smileless2012, Quote [snip>>There's no reason why TM should take the blame regardless of whether or not it's a bad deal or no deal. All politicians must take some responsibility as they should have been working together to get the best outcome for the country.<<<snip] End Quote.

Smokeless2012, the reason why TM must take responsibility for all that happens in government would be that she is the Prime Minister and thereby responsible for all that occurs "on her watch".

As you state above, in what many see as the most significant crisis the UK has faced since World War Two, politicians from all sides of the House of Commons should be in coalition to produce the best outcome for Britain in regard to Brexit. However, the above is most certainly not the case. Parliament is totally divided within both major parties as is opinion within the British population in general.

Theresa May should be leading a united government that offers a lead and vision as to the way through the Brexit situation. In that, TM most certainly is not. There is also little sign that any centre coalition will form to curtail the dominance of the hard-line Brexitiers on the Tory benches and they now openly discuss plans to replace her premiership with a member from their own ranks possibly prior to Christmas

In the above, the premiership of Theresa May has been and is a failure at this point in time even with the recent limited support of the EU chief brexit negotiator. However, that act may ensure her downfall as the hard-line Brexitiers are most certainly in no mood to accept anything that keeps Britain tethered in any meaningful way to the European Union.

I Believe that the majority in Britain hope that Theresa May can produce "a rabbit from the hat" in the EU negotiations. The problem is even if that were to be to come about it is entirely probable that it would not be accepted by the Conservatives within the House of Commons.

I feel that there is much truth in what the EU leaders have stated this week, being that Britain will not come to its senses until we are staring into the abyss in the last months of the negotiations.

Should many matters not improve very quickly then I feel Theresa Mays days as Prime Minister are most likely indeed numbered.

Good post Smileless

Good post Smileless ??

GillT57, there is much that many would agree with in your above post. However, Boris (the buffoon) Johnson is only interested in one thing, and that is Boris Johnson.

Evidence to that can be witnessed in that a person still resides in an Iran prison due to his stupidity. It is also widely reported that he had two letters written regarding the Brexit referendum one to each side pledging his support, but only sent the one to the leave leaders when he figured out the "way the wind was blowing"

He is not alone in the Tory party that thinks of nothing but themselves whatever the consequences for the country. However, he is the most prominent of the foregoing and therefore the most likely to be the first to challenge TM.

Others would then undoubtedly follow and chaos could ensue with Brexit overhanging all.

There's no reason why TM should take the blame regardless of whether or not it's a bad deal or no deal. All politicians must take some responsibility as they should have been working together to get the best outcome for the country.

The EU is only now, after months of blocking everything that's been put forward, appearing to be more proactive. They don't want a no deal Brexit as it would be as bad for them as it would be for us.

They want TM to remain as PM as for us to have a GE at this late stage would be catastrophic. BJ or JC for prime minister is the stuff of nightmares.

Both the main parties are so busy backstabbing and fighting amongst themselves that they are failing to do what they have been elected ( and paid) to do, i.e govern as majority party and opposition. They are all an absolute shower of shit and I would not like to vote for any of them. I can't be the only one, and I sincerely hope that we do not have a GE, not at least until we know which way the wind is blowing with the Labour party. I don't think there will be a vote of no confidence in T May as nobody wants to be the one to lead the country into fiscal disaster, and one thing that is certain is that Boris and JRM are looking after their own interests first and nothing else.

Some think Boris has charisma!

May has zero charisma and looked incredibly stilted in the Panorama interview, despite this I think she will hang on and take the blame for the Brexit mess which is a poisoned chalice.

I feel that Boris (the buffoon) Johnson may make a move against Theresa May for the premiership before Christmas. He will use the forthcoming party conference to gauge if he has sufficient support at all levels and should he become convinced he has then "BINGO".

Although Jacob Rees Mogg may at that time also decide to so throw his hat into the ring. Then we really would have something to witness.

I think it's more like they stabbed her in the back. If those present at Chequers didn't support the plan, they should have said so at the time.

I think some of them think they're making her appear stupid and incompetent when in reality this is how they're portraying themselves.

Was anyone else disappointed with last night's Panorama which was advertised as an interview with TM? Considering they'd supposedly spent 2 weeks with her, according to Mr. S. only about 25% was dedicated to her.

I got fed up with it so watched something else.

One thing that continues to puzzle me is that her policy is continually referred to as the Chequers plan, where I thought the idea had been that they would agree on a united front, but who agreed to it, or did they all say 'yes miss' at the time then did an about-turn?

he must be keeping it under his Lenin hat.

OMG! You are so hilarious, lemon...

GrannyG Nobody has any idea of Corbyn’s stance on Brexit, you are not alone he must be keeping it under his Lenin hat.

JCs problem is the a large number of his MPs want to be rid of him but can't, he is sitting on the fence waiting for an opportunity to do something ( anything) decisive.
As long as TM keeps the Unionists on side she is safe, upset them on the border issue it gets difficult because they might vote with Labour.

I repeat, a general election, who to vote for? Do I want to be hanged or shot.