Labour Policy on Education

So let’s ban communism, remember the Russian Revolution.

And how dare you imply that I am anti- Semitic, Annie.

I think you need help.

We will miss the Salvation Army , I will certaintly miss the joy they bring with their bands . Suppose the state will take over all the Army’s shelters, the Anglican Church’s food banks. St.Martins in the Fields homeless shelter.

As far as I know religious schools do not teach their religion exclusively, certainly not when I was at school. Their were separate religious education classes for catholics and other christians. The, mainly, CofE classes were taught by teachers from that denomination. Jewish girls did not have to be present at religious classes at all. Most religious schools also teach children about other faiths and religions as well as their own.

There are a few schools, almost entirely fringe fundamentalist religious schools from all faiths and denominations, which do teach exclusively their own religion, impose its strictest rules and not teach about other religions, other than in a negative way, but they are a very small proportion of all schools and educate an even smaller proportion of pupils.

The majority of faith schools are in the main stream denominations, are open to children of all denominations, and teach children about other faiths and religions with respect.

Even if faith schools are abolished, what about schools in the state sector that are religious schools because of the communities that feed that school. This arises in Northern Ireland and in some areas in the midlands and northern England.

Someone asks why this matters. The reason it matters is that when a school becomes overwhelmingly attended by children of one denomination, there is a very strong danger that it starts to become like some of the more extreme small religious schools. The religious views of the majority start to dominate the whole ethos of the school and permeate the school culture and these can be damaging to the educational progress of some pupils. We have seen this in the problems that arose in Birmingham and in other areas and it has undoubtedly been one of the factors contributing to Northern Ireland's inter-community problems.

Can I just repeat that banning faith schools was a suggestion by a Liberal Democrat, not Labour.

And supported by you Ilovecheese ,

It has been advocated by several people on this thread.

Well, yes, I have already said that I agree with the suggestion. I just wanted to make clear that it was just that, a suggestion by a Liberal Democrat and not a Labour policy.

Who on earth has suggested getting rid of the Salvation Army?

There is no space in the 21C for the segregation and divisions that start in school, with religious schools- of any denomination.

It is strange how the Lib Dems frequently come up with a policy which is more left wing than Labour but remain the "centre-left" party. Could it be that no-one really takes them seriously?

Public schools and state schools - segregation

Labours policy on education could be:

"don't do as I do, do as I say" ?

Ilovecheese, if religion is to be kept in the home and place of worship the Salvation Army must be on the list with Jews, Muslims and all Christians .

Seems so gilly, close faith schools but schools chosen by Emily Thornberry , Diane Abbott , Baroness Shami are acceptable

We are not talking about individuals - but the basic principle.

If we want to keep CofE and Catholic schools, we have to accept Jewish schools and Muslim schools, and many more- and segregation from early childhood- different types of education and different doors opened and closed for children and their future. As for private schools, if education was properly funded, there would be little need for anyone to go private - as is the case where I live and most parts of Europe.

Jura, you really believe parents choose Eton and Harrow because there are no good state schools in their area?

I think faith schools should reflect all sides of the faith community. Basic to that would be, as all mainstream religious schools do, offering many places to children of other faiths and none and being open to the wider faith and non-faith world.

The real concerns are where children live in a mono-religious community and go to mono religious schools.

As I mentioned, earlier, in a peripatetic childhood I went to many schools, most of them catholic, and one or two of them were close to being mono-religious, but all the children attending them lived in the wider community where friends, neighbours, family members. tradesmen, etc etc were all faiths and none. Their lives were not spent in a mono-religious society.

Exactly Annie

Pardon my ignorance but what is "peripatetic" m0nica ? I keep reading it as baby talk for "very pathetic"

No Annie - most private schools are not Eton and Harrow, Charterhouse, etc, Public Schools are a tiny minority, as you well know.

No matter how many private schools there are parents choose them and I do not believe the choice is forced because there are so many poor state schools , that’s the excuse put forward by some Labour MP’s, Emily Thornberry said her children were privately educated because she wanted the best for them.

The one thing I have never understood about the Labour party and education is why it is so against Grammar schools.

The idea of them of course is that bright children from poorer families can still have a good education with other more academically inclined children. They are state schools, so free. What's not to like?

Surely it's in this country's interest (well every country really) to encourage and nurture intelligent children as these are the future of the country - our doctors scientists, inventors etc.

It seems to me that children of lower ability, as well as those with any number of the latest behavioural 'disorder' or other, are given more attention than the very children who will be the future of this country.

Of course under a dreaded Labour government Grammar schools will never return. Their egalitarian philosophy has put paid to that.

The reason grammar schools are no longer practical, is that nowadays parents who can afford it will be hiring tutors to coach their children, putting all those children whose parents cannot afford coaching at a severe disadvantage.

I think there was an LA with grammar schools that divided the places around all the potential feeder schools, so that every school got, proportionately, the same number of children into the school. They nominated their brightest children, who I think, were interviewed.

Nowadays that would be unfeasible because parents would 'game' the primary school they sent their child to, as well as the pressure head teachers would be under, especially in, advantaged housing areas. I wouldn't want to be a Head teacher in that position these days.

I can see your point about private tutoring MOnica but hasn't this always been the case? Despite this, plenty of state educated children have secured a place at Grammar schools.

I remember some years ago that WH Smith sold practice papers. They were only a couple of pounds or so.

Of course now there are so few of those schools, places are going to be in short supply. If more Grammar schools were built then that would certainly give bright state educated children more of a chance.

Yes, Annie, and most parents understand that .'Emily Thornberry said her children were privately educated because she wanted the best for them.'...

in countries where the State system is properly funded, with decent class size and facilities - parents do not choose private education- because all schools are excellent, all classes have reasonable numbers and support. In the large valley where I live, I do not know of a single child being privately educated, however rich the parents.