Northern Ireland and Brexit

I think you're wrong there is still a core of the hatred thats been there for centuries.My friend recently had a weekend in Derry ,didn't think to check the area out that the hotel was in before they booked.The taxi driver who dropped them off asked them some questions and then advised them not to leave the hotel unless in a group or to go to certain pubs .There are still areas "decorated" with the huge murals of soldiers with guns and No Surrender and its not an isolated case.It still the ssame in other parts on NI too .
It is totally unreasonable to walk away from this issue ,apart from anything else if it escalates, as it 's likely ,the Troubles are apt to spill over to the mainland .I'm sure the people of England dont want a repeat of the past either .

There is no solution to the Irish Problem other than to cancel Brexit and the only way we can do that is by a People's Vote. My view is that in the long run there should be a United Ireland, the level of hatred in Ireland is getting less. The people of Northern Ireland should have a vote to stay in the UK or join the Irish Republic.

If it says 'remain' then there is no problem- stay as it is, simple.

You're right Jura2 far too simplistic a solution.
So what happens when there is a second vote and it says remain?

Or are you ruling out a second vote ?

Why would ROI change, because a great deal of its trade is with or through the UK. A hard border is going to cost them a great deal

Yes, thanks, forgot the 'not'.

People with second homes do not go on 'holiday' for 1 week or 2, - they go to their second home, which happens to be across the border rather than in Devon or the Lakes ... and they go for many weeks at a time, even months- as they have chosen homes in the country where their pets are welcome.

We never come to UK for less than 3 weeks at a time- but many going to France do so for the whole Summer, and as said, months at a time.

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I think you are exaggerating. We do not know what the exact arrangements will be for small animals. Second home owners by definition are unlikely to end up with nothing and if they can afford to travel to and fro on a regular basis, they can also afford to make the necessary arrangements for their pets.
I don’t take Hattie on holiday even in this country, she goes to kennels. My friend with a horse and two donkeys arranges “pet care” in her own way.

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You don't seem to care- and that is your prerogative of course- but don't pretend that many will be seriously affected in ways they could never have planned for, or imagined

Did you really mean that?
Or did you mean will NOT be seriously affected ?

Well, I am with you on that one - and yet...

when people are pushed to the brink, with no plan B possible but to come home with nothing at all, they get desperate and put themselves and their families first.

As for Hattie- you know jolly well the answer to that. But there are 1000s with second homes in France who travel back and forth with pets all the time, and 10s of 1000s of Brits in EU who regularly come home to visit family and friends - with their pets- and who probably won't be able to do so in future. Like ourselves.

You don't seem to care- and that is your prerogative of course- but don't pretend that many will be seriously affected in ways they could never have planned for, or imagined.

Seriously, if that is the attitude to their animals of any expats living abroad , they can stay abroad and good riddance.

OMG you are not saying Hattie might be deported? ????

Oh yes, Maw- our Emma has hers, Danish, with Swiss and French vet stamps in it. And she comes back and forth with us, to our family and friends in the UK - she has also been to Italy with us, and goes to France many times a week.

Minou 3 legs has his too- issued in France although he lives in Switzerland- although he tends to stay behind with our wonderful French neighbour looking after him.

But the VERY POINT is - that those EU passports will no longer be valid soon to and from UK. That means that those with pets will no longer be able to travel to visit family, or to go on holiday. As during the last financial crisis, when 1000s of Brits living in France were hit badly and could not sell their home, they will probably be left behind- like last time. Dogs, cats, chickens, donkeys, horses and so many more- abandonned at the local spa in boxes- or just left in the garden - with the key under the matt and no forwarding address. That is the reality on the ground.

Emma is wonderful - but at 13, very disturbed by the trauma her owners put her through before we took her on. Euthanazed her son who was 11 - and dumped her on our doorstep. She is gorgeous, but we just could not leave her in kennels or with anyone- as long as she is with us, she is very happy. So, what would we choose- visiting our grandchildren? Or Emma?

Sorry, Diana, but I don't believe you have quite thought this one through- somehow.

Why should Ireland (by which I presume you mean the ROI) have to change its customs arrangements to suit the UK?

And I don't think that the EU would approve such an agreement; it would have to be EU wide, surely?

Staying in the EU with a customs union, that would probably suit Scotland too.

Rather than have a hard border maybe Ireland would join the UK in the same customs union i.e.:- Norway model
I know this has not been mooted but may be a solution, Ireland really, really does not want a border it is in their interest to find an agreement.

share, even?

#justsaying

Paw’s family are all entitled to Irish passports. I believe his younger sister is applying for one.
In the meantime Hattie has hers

No, but this is pretty irrelevant to putting forward solutions for the border. Have you got one to shrare, please?

Is it only me who thinks Arlene Foster looks like Les Dawson in drag?

There is no solution to Ireland while the Unionists oppose any talk of unification , right or wrong that's the way it is. While there was an open border the problem went into remission but was not eliminated, it will return unless there is a customs union.

The was one final solution that was talked about a lot at the height of the troubles .
Tow Ireland out into the Atlantic and sink it!. There wasnt a large enough tug available.

Unless we want to turn the clock back 40 yrs an agreement is needed or the violence will resume.

'I haven’t applied for one but I’m eligible for an Irish passport so I’ll probably pick one up. I also voted Leave in the referendum and would do so again, with redoubled enthusiasm. There's nothing hypocritical about collecting another passport. Firstly, I’m entitled to it and there might just be some advantage to be had e.g. using a slightly shorter queue to leave an airport. But by far the best reason is that my Remain friends will go utterly ballistic with indignation.

I’ll have to pick my time— perhaps in the middle of another heated discussion on the pros and cons of EU membership. "I don’t care any more if Brits won’t get preferential treatment applying for jobs in the EU," I’ll say. They’ll ask why not. I’ll reach into my inside pocket, pull out my Irish passport and give it a triumphant little twirl. Their faces! '

This is the kind of thing I am talking about as being vastly hypocritical. Can't give my sources, but a real case of someone who is living very comfortably abroad.

My sil is 49- and grew up on the border. We were walking in their small town in England, and a car backfired as it went past. He threw himself on the ground with his arms and hands around his head.

I just could not understand what was going on and I laughed- what he told me was NOT funny, at all. It was all so recent.

I watched a programme about the "Troubles" late last night ,it was heartbreaking .God help those who may be facing a return to those situations and shame on Westminster for not keeping the Good Friday agreement in place to safeguard families like the ones shown .From BOTH sides of the divide they were left bereft and broken and we seem uncaring about repeating the whole sorry mess when we can keep the peace so easily.It is an uneasy peace but it has held and will if nothing is changed .

It does not seem quite 'Democratic', does it? If citizens live abroad for 15 years, they lose their vote- but Lords who have a massive influence on politics, can live on the moon and continue to do so?

I think that he is in the H of L only because he has a British peerage. Where he lives is irrelevant; it's the peerage itself and its British origin which entitles him to his seat. He could live on the moon and still be entitled to sit in the UK H of L.

jura2 I seldom agree with you but - I guess the H of L are not subject to the rules of the general public.

I would like to know, re Nigel Lawson, how can he be permanently resident in France, pay his taxes in France, etc, etc, and still be allowed to take his seat in the Lords. Surely, residents abroad should not be allowed to do so.

Does anyone know the rules re the Lords?