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Northern Ireland and Brexit

(364 Posts)
MaizieD Sat 29-Sept-18 10:42:25

An Irishman tries yet again to explain the huge Brexit problem with NI. In response to yet another airy dismissal by Boris Johnson:

Start

Patrick Kielty @patrickielty
And please.... please don't tell me it's "our money" or that the UK government would have done it anyway because I can't be bothered to take you by the hand, lead you to a corner and explain simple things in words of one syllable

1. Northern Ireland is made up of a majority of Unionists (as in the Conservative and Unionist Party) and, believe it or not, a rather large minority of Nationalists (as in Irish Nationalists)

2. These Irish Nationalists don’t see themselves as British but rather inconveniently as Irish (who knew?)

3. For over 30 years we killed each other because of these differences which means Northern Ireland is nothing like Camden or Westminster.

4. The Good Friday Agreement ended that violence by the following devious magic - Unionists were guaranteed that Northern Ireland would be part of the UK until the majority voted otherwise.

The Irish was border was removed and the island linked so Nationalists could pretend they were already living in a United Ireland (yes, Tony Blair did slight of hand much better than you)

5. Some of these Nationalists then accepted being part of the UK as their day to day lives were essentially Irish.

6. This cunning plan was sold to us on the basis that we were all part of the EU therefore fixation on nationality was so last World War.

7. Implementing the Good Friday Agreement was torturous (think Brexit with actual bombs, not metaphorical suicide vests) but we finally made peace. Yet 20 years later NI remains a divided society.

8. Thanks to your glorious Brexit vision Northern Ireland will become more divided as some form of economic border checks will become part of daily lives.

9. If those checks take place between NI and Ireland, the Nationalists who were once happy being part of the UK will change their mind.

10. If they take place in the Irish Sea some Unionists will be livid. However they'll still support being part of the UK (the clue is in the Unionist bit)

11. Your Brexit lies have opened a Pandora’s box for Northern Ireland. It's one reason why the majority of people in NI voted to remain in the EU (almost as if they knew more about the fragile equilibrium of their politics than you)

12. Barely mentioned before Brexit, a border poll is now inevitable thanks to your monumental ignorance.

13. When that poll is eventually held the Nationalists who were once content being part of a Northern Ireland within the UK and EU will vote to leave the UK to feel as Irish and European as they did before Brexit.

14. The poll will be much closer thanks to your Brexit folly and could easily be lost by Unionists, breaking up the UK.

15. Any break up of the Union will be your fault (a tad inconvenient as a member of the Conservative and er, Unionist party)

16. The EU is not responsible for your blundering lack of foresight. Like most people in Northern Ireland they were happy with the status quo.

17. By the time the penny drops that you can’t preserve the Union you want without the one you don’t, it will be too late.

18. You will be remembered not as the Churchillian visionary you delude yourself to be but the ignoramus who triggered the break up of the UK.

19. If there’s any justice all this will come to pass when you're Prime Minister so you can finally swim in the constitutional sewage you've created (though we all know you’ll be in Nice with your trotters up)

20. Meantime, if you’re so concerned about keeping Northern Ireland totally aligned with the rest of the UK where’s your support for our same sex marriage and women’s right to choose? Your silence is deafening.

End

In a nutshell, so to speak grin

paddyann Fri 12-Oct-18 23:12:43

maybe they'll close another motorway and make a vast carpark in NI where everyone can congregate and have their vehicles checked ,no border just everyone in one place .Seems like tory logic to me

Grandad1943 Fri 12-Oct-18 23:08:20

jura2, oh sorry, my deepest and sincerest apologies if I have.

jura2 Fri 12-Oct-18 20:34:49

Oh Grandad, be quiet- youve interrupted their flow now ...

Grandad1943 Fri 12-Oct-18 19:34:41

Right, jura2, now we have the question fully refreshed no doubt numerous answers will be received within a very short time. Then, we can all look forward to the fabulous bounties of Brexit.

I would never have believed it could be so simple. wink

jura2 Fri 12-Oct-18 18:53:23

To be fair, maybe they have forgotten the question, it was sooo long ago. So I'll repeat it, just in case:

*Just one question to any Leaver- a simple one.

Please demonstrate a viable solution for the Irish Border. Please.* in bold, so it is not so easily forgotten.

jura2 Fri 12-Oct-18 18:50:47

Oh don't be so cynical Grandad- we've only been waiting for 14 days- I'm sure it is coming ...

Grandad1943 Fri 12-Oct-18 16:12:36

Silence is Golden, or in this case says everything.

varian Fri 12-Oct-18 13:23:32

Brilliant video, Jura. It is scary how much these old Americans resemble the retired Telegraph readers and Daily Mail readers I've met.

jura2 Fri 12-Oct-18 12:59:07

no answers on anything Grandad- none.

jura2 Fri 12-Oct-18 12:41:59

Could post this on any of the Brexit realted thread - and wish I could edit the 'Trump was us' for 'Brexit was us'... the best advert I've seen in a very long time:

www.facebook.com/TheIndependentOnline/videos/178707726353758/

Grandad1943 Fri 12-Oct-18 12:35:52

And still no answers from the Brexitiers on how the Irish Border issue is to be solved

It's just as well no one is holding their breath on this one. confused

jura2 Thu 11-Oct-18 21:35:05

Arghh sorry- don't think it is coming, someow ...

jura2 Thu 11-Oct-18 21:21:08

counting 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ..............

but computer says 'no' and so does Maw.

jura2 Thu 11-Oct-18 21:05:21

Do not worry, Grandad- MawB will soon be here with a great and easy solution (hmmm perhaps).

Grandad1943 Thu 11-Oct-18 20:21:31

Diana54, I most definitely hope you are right regarding a second vote.

Diana54 Thu 11-Oct-18 18:52:42

I'm sure it going to be up to parliament to decide and a lot of MPs are going to ignore the whip, if it comes to that a second vote is highly likely because nobody will want shoulder the blame - or responsibility depending on which way you look at it

JessM Thu 11-Oct-18 18:41:08

That was a long read in one sitting! But I note no suggestions re solving the unsolvable Border problem. Johnson talks about it as if it one bridge. Not 300 miles with a total of about 200 roads of various types crossing it. And a train line.
Currently ferry ports (and airports) require you to have photo ID at borders which is inspected. Unless you are in a vehicle. The ro-ro ports are designed to keep things flowing so if you get to port in a car with 4 passengers, as long as you have a ticket with 4 passengers, they just wave you into the port. And no stopping when you get off the other end. Lorry traffic is a huge issue as a lot of food and other perishables goes through the 3 ports. If there we are not in the single market and the customs union then there would need to be checks in both directions. Traffic would rapidly back up e.g. to the centre of Dublin. Ferries would no longer be able to run on schedule. And so it goes on... I agree there is no solution given May's Red Lines about leaving the above and not being willing to have a single arbiter in regulatory disputes.

Grandad1943 Thu 11-Oct-18 18:23:00

Diana54, I do not believe that any change of PM or even a General Election would solve the Brexit mire that the UK is politically sinking into.

Even if an agreement is reached in the leave negotiations based on the Chequers deal, in all probability it will be thrown out by the British Parliament.

What must those EU negotiators be thinking as they try to work towards an agreement in Brussels?

Diana54 Thu 11-Oct-18 17:54:37

Grandad, how would a change solve the NI problem and who are your likely candidates, is a heavyweight really likely to take the poison chalice.

Grandad1943 Thu 11-Oct-18 17:41:32

Well, with many Conservative MPs not attending Prime Ministers Question time in Parliament yesterday and Theresa May did look very isolated. It would seem that the Brexit row within the Tory party is now very likely to see the end of her premiership, but what follows could be any one of several scenarios.

Diana54 Thu 11-Oct-18 17:25:58

The DUP certainly have the power to sink TM, will they really go that far?. It could easily force a general election and the outcome could well be JC as PM but will he have a outright majority.
A partnership with the SNP would be an interesting alliance on Brexit, Nicola Sturgeon would have an entirely different set of red lines. The DUP will likely vote down any Brexit Bill but they have a lot to loose if a vote of no confidence is triggered.

Fennel Thu 11-Oct-18 15:31:09

grin Eee Jura !

jura2 Thu 11-Oct-18 13:06:07

No, not at all - circumstances have changed totally. So I have changed by opinion.

MawBroon Thu 11-Oct-18 13:04:00

I've always been against Independence for Scotland- but now, I just could not blame any of them for voting for it

How can you now say

I am not actually and never have been against independence for Scotland as such
Do these statements not contradict each other? confused

jura2 Thu 11-Oct-18 12:57:49

The break up of Great Britain would infringe on all of us- so would a hard Brexit or no Deal ...even those of us who no longer live in the UK.