Northern Ireland and Brexit

"The president also had to combat the notion that his visit to Ireland was little more than a promotional opportunity for his golf club at Doonbeg.

One Irish journalist asked Trump directly whether his trip was primarily for commercial purposes.

“No, this trip is really about great relationships that we have with the U.K.,” he said. “I really wanted to do this stop in Ireland. It was really important to me, because of the relationship I have with the people, and with your prime minister.”

Ireland has not been part of the United Kingdom since 1922."

www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-ireland-trump-downplays-border-situation-before-heading-to-his-golf-course/2019/06/05/5b63806c-87b4-11e9-9d73-e2ba6bbf1b9b_story.html?utm_term=.510f4b66f248

Trump likens Irish border to wall between US and Mexico!

Donald Trump has started his visit to Ireland by comparing its post-Brexit border with Northern Ireland to the US border with Mexico, along which he wants to build a permanent wall.

Trump, sitting next to a visibly uncomfortable taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, waded into the Brexit debate minutes after Air Force One touched down at Shannon airport on Wednesday afternoon.

“I think it will all work out very well, and also for you with your wall, your border,” he said at a joint press conference. “I mean, we have a border situation in the United States, and you have one over here. But I hear it’s going to work out very well here.”

Varadkar interjected that Ireland wished to avoid a border or a wall, a keystone of Irish government policy.

“I think you do, I think you do,” Trump said. “The way it works now is good, you want to try and to keep it that way. I know that’s a big point of contention with respect to Brexit. I’m sure it’s going to work out very well. I know they’re focused very heavily on it.”

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/ireland-visit-donald-trump-arrives-leo-varadkar-discussions

I still have nightmares.

My sil was born on the NI/irish border in the late 60s. We were out together a few years back when a motorcycle overtook us and backfired- he threw himself on the ground. We were surprised and asked 'memories of the Troubles- saw many of my friends die'

we were truly shocked and upset that he was still scared and scarred, almost 50 years later. Wounds go very very deep, on both sides.

There is NO solution to the Irish/NI border - none whatsoever.

In reply to GG........

Patrick Kielty was just 16 when his father was shot dead by loyalist paramilitarists who falsely claimed he was a member of the IRA. Incensed by Boris Johnson's claim that brexit would not cause a problem on the Irish border, wrote-

"Implementing the Good Friday Agreement was torturous (think Brexit with actual bombs, not metaphorical suicide vests) but we finally made peace. Yet 20 years later NI remains a divided society.

Thanks to your glorious Brexit vision Northern Ireland will become more divided as some form of economic border checks will become part of daily lives.

If those checks take place between NI and Ireland, the Nationalists who were once happy being part of the UK will change their mind.

If they take place in the Irish Sea some Unionists will be livid. However they'll still support being part of the UK (the clue is in the Unionist bit)

Your Brexit lies have opened a Pandora’s box for Northern Ireland. It's one reason why the majority of people in NI voted to remain in the EU (almost as if they knew more about the fragile equilibrium of their politics than you)

Barely mentioned before Brexit, a border poll is now inevitable thanks to your monumental ignorance.

When that poll is eventually held the Nationalists who were once content being part of a Northern Ireland within the UK and EU will vote to leave the UK to feel as Irish and European as they did before Brexit.

The poll will be much closer thanks to your Brexit folly and could easily be lost by Unionists, breaking up the UK.

Any break up of the Union will be your fault (a tad inconvenient as a member of the Conservative and er, Unionist party)

The EU is not responsible for your blundering lack of foresight. Like most people in Northern Ireland they were happy with the status quo.

By the time the penny drops that you can’t preserve the Union you want without the one you don’t, it will be too late.

You will be remembered not as the Churchillian visionary you delude yourself to be but the ignoramus who triggered the break up of the UK.

If there’s any justice all this will come to pass when you're Prime Minister so you can finally swim in the constitutional sewage you've created (though we all know you’ll be in Nice with your trotters up)

Meantime, if you’re so concerned about keeping Northern Ireland totally aligned with the rest of the UK where’s your support for our same sex marriage and women’s right to choose? Your silence is deafening."

www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/patrick-kielty-schools-boris-johnson-13328777

i scream with laughter

out we go we go we go

'con' indeed.

jabber you are fab and make great posts I so identidy

EU odious vile unelected leaders of...

ghastly

A big rip off con

The palpable dissent, hate, animosity, call it what you will, in the island of Ireland between certain factions, will last for a very very long time,
notwithstanding the present border issue.
I remember seeing and hearing about the tarring and feathering of young women who fraternised with peace-keeping soldiers.
I heard the bullets being fired at the post at Piggery Ridge.
A good friend was a Colour Sgt in the 1st Bn Gren Guards and was punched and kicked when he arrived at Manchester Station on R&R.
After that he could never wear his uniform in public.
He and others were horribly glassed by some Irish workers in Mönchengladbach when out of uniform when they supposed he and his friends were from the base.
The hate before during and after the 70s has not dissipated, it simmers below the surface to erupt at any given opportunity.
There are those on all sides who will never forget or forgive and still seek retribution.
Ireland is a beautiful island, north and south but, to see the festering hatred manifesting itself all over again is something no-one wants to witness.
The factions responsible seem unwilling to make a lasting, meaningful peace if the recent bomb packages sent to the UK are any indication.
We here will always suffer the fallout although we've tried our best to calm the waters.
It will always be so. In my lifetime and in the lifetimes of my AC, GC, GGC and beyond.
A festering scab that will always be picked.
The border is yet another excuse to rebel.
When you can't solve an issue after almost 100 years, it's best to leave it and turn your attention to matters closer to 'home'.

Annepl wrote:

"I hasten to add most Catholics and Protestants are not narrowminded. It's actually a minority."

My Irish Aunt and mother would have agreed as would my Scottish father who worked in NI.

If the Northern Irish and the Irish can't live peacefully side by side and threaten to return to fighting, then that's their shameful business.

The EU has borders with many non EU countries on its eastern side- Albania, Macedonia etc. It even has borders with African countries because it has accepted French colonies as being EU members. Don't tell me all these countries have the same regulatory standards as the EU because that would be poppycock. There is no talk of an Albanian back stop and so on. Yet the UK has always abided by the EU rules and regulations and any future 'divergences' are likely to be very minor.

RosieLeah I too remember the border as not being a problem. But reinstating it is seen as dividing the country which would as you say cause trouble to flare. That's as far as my interest goes. I switch off when I hear the word Backstop.. Good luck TM!
I hasten to add most Catholics and Protestants are not narrowminded. It's actually a minority.

rosieleah to use your fatuous argument- if all the Protestants in Ulster who declare they are British not Irish, went to live on the British mainland where their ancestors were shipped over from, then the problem would be solved. ( btw this is not what I am suggesting - just trying to show the weakness in the above argument)

No Gabriella- I was not 'well recognised' in the area- when I was first stopped- that was the point. And neither was I the second time- when we still had a right hand drive car with a British sitcker but Swiss number plate - again, that was the point.
It was my parents who were 'well recognised' the first time- and just pure luck that one of the border guards had visited us in the UK. The point being that they can, and they will stop you and check you over.

Jura it should never have been partitioned but unfortunately it was and reuniting is not simple.
I think when people stop voting for extreme parties things will change. But it will take time.
As for now, I too see no solution to the border issue.

Nothing like spectacularly missing the point of jura's post, GG54

nfk is correct. I have lived in Northern Ireland and experienced the narrow-minded prejudice between Catholics and Protestants. They blame the British for their problems but it's really their own animosity towards each other. If all the Catholics left the North and migrated to the South, that would solve the problem. When I lived there, there was a proper border between the two and all vehicles were checked, but it didn't cause long delays. I'm sure it's much worse in Calais. The IRA are just looking for an excuse to start killing again.

do so

jura2
Was all that to show us how 'well recognised' you are in that area, because I can see no other reason for padding out the story with those 'leave her alone it's our jura ' bits, which are of no significance.
Border guards have a duty to investigate no matter who you are and the 'young' officers who decided to do so, obviously hadn't had a formal introduction.
Perhaps, in future, they will have a photo of you and all visiting family members, pinned to the office wall do that you are never stopped again.
I hope they get due punishment for having the temerity to interrupt your journey.
How very dare they.

Bizarrely enough, this popped up on my FB page just now.

Perhaps we need a bit of a reminder. I do wonder how many generations it will take. I got into real trouble with a NI relative recently when I said it would take 4 more generations before NI and Ireland could even consider uniting (most NI protestants will go crazy if you say 're-united' as they will claim that Ulster was always a separate entity).

www.facebook.com/Channel4/videos/257925298417950/

GrannyGravy13: 'Am I correct in thinking that Switzerland has no hard borders, is not in the EU but is part of Shengen.
There must be a similar solution for NI without shengen though.'

This is a myth- Switzerland has hard borders- which are soft ;) EG there is physical infrastructure, booths, barriers (which are normall opened) - the main posts are wo/manned 24/7- small one like ours round the corner from us- only a few hours a day at random. They are armed. Because of Schengen, they are not allowed to check your papers - unless, and it is a big 'unless' they have any doubt or suspicion (sp?) - in which case they can do more or less what they want- and keep you until they have checked everything on International registers, searched you, including very invasive searches, etc. What they can do anytime, is check the car for any goods, eg how much meat or stuff you have bought from abroad (in our case France). For lorries, they have to check at specific border posts for all the administrative stuff.

On top of that, all the minor roads are patrolled 24/7- including small ones in the woods, over the mountains- and they will stop anyone they consider 'suspicious'. And on top of that- they can set up temporary check posts in lay-bys along roads up to 30 kilometres from border- anytime, anywhere. Stop and check for goods- but anything else if they have any doubt at all. When I was still living in UK, I had to come urgently to see mum who was very poorly. Got to the border with a Hire Car, so they stopped me and asked for my passport and driving licence. He thought it was weird t have someone with a local accent with a British Passport and British Driving Licence- so I had to go into the office whilst he checked the International Register - I sat there quietly - until the other officer shouted at him 'what the hell are you doing, this is the daughter of my next door neighbours M. et Mme X. The youngster turned bright red and apologised profusely - and we had a giggle about it for years.

So soft ' I'd say no ;) and this certainly would NOT be acceptable on the Irish/NI border, for sure.

But even this would not be acceptable without full Schengen acceptance, which is based firmly on Free Movement of People. And the reason Switzerland is in a quandry since the Vote to limit immigration in Feb. 2014- and which has not been implemented as the Government realised the cost, in 1000s of ways, would be massive. Remind you of something?

A few years back, we had sil and bil from Surrey and daughter and her daughters over for Christmas- we were stopped at a lay-by about 12 km from border by a patrol. Young officer was a bit overkeen - and again- another officer shouted at him 'live her alone, it's our Jura' - again red face. Other officer came over to give us a big hug and kisses, and we were on our way (she had been twice to stay with us in UK as her BF was doing a 3 months English course with me).

Gabriella wants to cut a lot of people adrift- first British expats living in EU, now the Irish - who is next. Remainers probably ;)

It is time to accept that there is NO solution to the Irish/NI border.

I used to read this kind of stuff on facebook. I expected better from GN.

I vote that we cut them adrift

Who is this aimed at GabriellaG

Crystaltipps is correct. Read your history.