Should ageism be considered a hate crime?

endre Can you imagine a 90 year old woman sexually assaulted by a 60 year old man and the police unable to call it a crime
Sexual assault is a crime. The police would always treat it as a crime.
It is just not a ‘hate crime’ in the way that for example, desecrating graves because they belonged to Jewish families would be.

I'd say no, it should not be a hate crime - the police are already stretched pretty thinly and struggle to solve all the real crimes without hurt feelings being considered criminal! If an older person is a victim of crime then it should be dealt with by the police and courts like all crimes - the justice system was not designed to be overfilled by people claiming their feelings were hurt/ignored or they were 'offended'. Real hate crimes are nasty undertones in our societies - we do not need made-up 'crimes'. Maybe look at stiffer penalties for those who offend against the most vulnerable, including the elderly. Naming and shaming might work to stop some re-offending, but these days some people don't seem to have a sense of shame about their wrongdoing and even take pride in their criminal activities! Respect seems to have somewhat diminished in recent decades and attitudes stink in some circles, but that's life. A world slowly filling with generations that have different values, a lack of respect, where selfishness and personal desires rule, a strange sense of entitlement is developing and instant gratification is expected. Back to basics using common sense and context - make the justice system more robust and punishments that fit the crime. Verbal insults, disappointment, being told 'no' etc might not be very nice but are not necessarily criminal and non-crimes should not be upgraded to hate crimes. Genuine victims of hate crime need the full protection of the law and support from society - current legislation could be enforced more effectively.

What's next to jump on the band wagon? Somebody is always looking for the next, sometimes trivial, issue and important causes then get forgotten.

And people being pushed out of a job in which they are very experienced and highly knowledgeable because they are expensive (and nowhere near retirement age) and the job can be done badly by someone much cheaper- that is a form of bullying.

How very sad and a terrible indictment of modern life. If something done to an elderly (or any other) person is a crime then it should be dealt with by the authorities. If it is rudeness and disrespect I don't think there are enough police to deal with it.

I don't know what the BBC is on about..
In what way are they saying that ageism could be construed as a hate crime?

It certainly should as all the Old Age charities tell us of the terrible way some very vulnerable elderly are treated these days. More often than got by people they should be trusting.

There are horror stories of elderly ladies being sexually attacked by older men just because they are vulnerable. These men hope old women won't report them but they are encouraged to do that now. It is shocking. Make it a crime and it will stop!

There are scams to get the elderly to hand over their money and I am not talking about the usual telephone scams. These crooks work within some charities and groups that are supposed to help the elderly get work done on their homes. Charging then three or four times more than they should and all "above board" because they are supposed to be working for a charity. The police know them and want the power to arrest these criminals for committing a crime. Hundreds of thousands of pounds is stolen this way every year. It often kills the victim, it is such a massive shock.

Then there are carers who steal as a "perk of the job". A real human would never do that, they would think of the shock on the victim when they discover money or property missing after trusting someone in their lives. Hurting them physically or threatening them with a beating or worse to hand over money should also be a crime

Anything that entails dehumanising anyone vulnerable to exploit them for gain or sex have to own a hateful heart. It can devastate a life and often leads to an early death.

I can't imagine anyone not wanting this to be a crime the police can use to prosecute. It's time we put a stop on these monsters and spell it out clearly they will no longer get away by targeting the vulnerable of any age

Can you imagine a 90 year old woman sexually assaulted by a 60 year old man and the police unable to call it a crime? An elderly couple threatened by abandonment and neglect by a family member to hand over their banking details and later find their home has been sold without their knowing? It's happening every day.

Let’s not make ourselves yet another set of victims relying on the state.

Instead we should use our experience to help others while leaving our police free to fight crimes of theivery and violence.

No, not hate crime.

No, not a hate crime. It should continue to be flagged up as unacceptable, and people should continue to be educated about it as such, along with the other “isms”, but in itself I don’t think it should be described as a hate crime. Like many things, it’s perpetration is down to ignorance and prejudice and it is this that needs to be dealt with through education and discussion. If other crimes happen as a result of ageism then they should be treated as such and dealt with appropriately.

I too am uncomfortable with all the -isms we have to deal with.

Could we perhaps go back to calling some of the incidents you all mention here sheer bad and disrespectful behaviour and try to bring up the youngsters we are in contact with to respect all age groups, both sexes (plus those in the middle) all skin tones etc. etc.

I am really uncertain about whether more laws defining inconsiderate or downright rude behaviour as a hate crime will have any other effect than slowing down the work of the police and the law courts.

I agree Maisie. Older people may be discriminated against, but that is not the same as being part of a group that is hated simply for being what they are. To say that they are, devalues the meaning of the word.
I don’t believe that that sort of hatred towards older people exists in this country -yet- but it may well do if older people start to portray themselves as victims.
I was reading an article yesterday in the Economist about how attitudes in America towards women have changed since the #MeToo campaign started a year ago.
More people now believe there are false accusations against men and more people believe men should not lose their jobs because of previous sexual assault/harassment.
There differences of course, but the differences were not on gender lines but on the political divide - perhaps unsurprisingly, attitudes had hardened far more among Trump voters than among Democrats.

I haven't read through much of this thread but would say, as in so many cases it all depends upon YOUR definition of the subject.
It seems now that people are considered by the law to have been racially abused if they consider it to be the case. This may, or may not be my view , as a by-stander , on the situation
Even worse is the situation where people may now self-define their gender, no matter what their physical attributes.... hence a male rapist, self proclaiming as a woman, being put into jail with born women.
I may, as an 80 year old take offence at someone of a younger age who shows me scant respect. I have seen the struggle my offspring have to suppost their families and carry out all necessary duties in a time of increasing pressure. Maybe that person whom I deem to have offended me is struggling to survive. There are many possibilities for interpretation. Let's be careful.

I'm just not very happy with using the word 'hate' to describe a category of crime. It's not a word that should be used lightly. there is too much encouragement of extreme speech, emotions and views these days*. The only alternative that comes to mind could be 'Disrespect' which I think covers the intention without being extreme. Others may agree or disagree.

To be honest, GrowingOldDisgracefully, I wouldn't describe what happened to your father as 'hate'. It seems to me more like ignorance and casual disregard of the feelings of others. In my mind 'disrespect' covers it better than 'hate'.

*with regard to encouragement of extremism I found this article to be interesting (and a bit frightening);

Time and again, researchers have discovered that when videos with political or ideological content are uploaded to the platform, YouTube’s “recommender” algorithm will direct viewers to more extremist content after they have watched the first one. Given that most people probably have the autoplay feature left on by default, that means that watching YouTube videos often leads people to extremist sites.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/23/how-youtube-takes-you-to-extremes-when-it-comes-to-major-news-events?CMP=share_btn_tw

I don't think it just applies to 'major news events' either.

Not sure. However how would you view this incident:
Some years ago when my Dad was alive, we had all just come back from some visit and Dad, having got out of the car, was crossing the pavement between the car and the front gate. Dad was then a bit shaky on his feet but reasonably mobile. There was a lane coming down the side of the house used by many of the schoolchildren on their way home from school. On this occasion one vile little brat came haring down the lane and nearly collided with Dad. Could have had serious consequences due to Dad's frailty. When remonstrated with, the said vile brat replied "it doesn't matter because he's old and doesn't matter anymore". I think for instances like this, yes, I would have classed that as hate. Had Dad suffered injury or worse, I would have viewed that as needing to be viewed as a hate crime.

In later years, after Dad's death, my Mum was subject (along with other older people in the area), to distraction burglaries, the perpetrators using the older people's diminished physical and mental capacities, as a means of carrying out their vile behaviour. Shouldn't this type of crime also attract stiffer sentences?

Sorry for the long post, but something I feel strongly about.

I think most of the people who commit crimes aren’t too fussy about who they hurt either physically or mentally.
They take the opportunity where they can.

My initial reaction was 'not another hate crime' but the problem seems to be that the police will only take seriously abuse of the elderly if it can be linked to a 'hate crime'. You can emotionally abuse an elder citizen, but the police won't take it seriously unless ageism is defined as a hate crime. Problem is with lack of police resources, how sad that someone terrified in their own home or nursing home is deemed not worthy of investigation unless there is an 'ism' to investigate to improve their statistics.

It does annoy me with that ageism is the only ism that the Guardian allows with BTL comments (below the line to people who don't like acronyms) but given that the police don't even treat crimes against the disabled as hate crime, I don't think we would have much luck with this.
Ageism definitely exists (just read any thread on Brexit and the number of posters saying that we'll be dead soon so don't matter) but I don't think that elderly people are often physically attacked just for being old in the way that people are for their ethnicity etc. Being scammed is a crime more often aimed at the elderly but I don't think that that is what they mean.
I would like ageism online to be treated more seriously but making it a crime will be ineffective and pointless.

jane's comment - the link answered my earlier question.
Here's another aspect:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45874265

no

Equality and Diversity :- Surely Rspect for ALL ages is necessary. Seems society is well aware that babies and children have needs :- These tend to be addressed, and rightly so.

Yet with advancing age, humans become less independent due to ill health, loss of muscle tone, etc, etc. Surely accepting that whilst allowing individuals to retain Dignity and be dealt with Respect is Important. We need to value our older population. We age chronologically, yet physically, mentally and emotionally not everyone is the same at the same chronological age. Respect Individuals regardless of their Age, allow and encourage each to Reach their Potential, provide Opportunities and Support for All.

RESPECT.

Don’t think need another hate crime. Margs is right about the cold callers but disabled get them as well. Some years ago someone was going to do my garden for me,I wasn’t able to. He emptied my shed and took the metal away then came back and said his machine had been broken and he needed more money which I gave him,he was quite intimidating, he kept wanting more and more but never doing anything,then he started following me as he knew when I went to get my money. He also “borrowed” my daughters bike and another daughters pushchair never to be seen again. In the end I did call the police but was told nothing to do with them,get on to trading standards. Amazes me the so called crimes there are now that get investigated and end up in court

It isn’t being suggested that ageism itself is a crime.
The Law Commission has been asked to explore the possibility of whether or not crimes that are motivated by ageism should be classified as hate crimes.
So if a young person throws a stone at an old person’s window, at the moment this is an ordinary crime.
But if the young person did it not because they were bored and wanted a bit of a thrill, but because they hated all old people and had targeted that window because they knew an old person lived there, that would be treated as a hate crime.
It is all explained in the link Laura provided.

I think abuse of any kind is illegal, so is fraud, so we shouldn’t need additional laws to protect people. However, we do need the police to investigate properly the crimes that are being committed.

Undecided about Ageism being classified as a hate crime - but definitely Elder Abuse should be.

The elderly are specifically targeted by Scam Scum cold-calling tradesmen (always men!) with the "we were just in the area doing some work over the way and we happened to notice.....".

Or , putting it bluntly "we're going to intimidate you into parting with money for bugger all, and we're banking on the fact that you're probably losing your marbles anyway. And remember - we know where you live...."

Still, vermin like that will be old one day, won't they?