‘Grenfell’ bonfire

Sadiq Khan himself is a politician so why are Labour keeping their heads down with all this crime going on ?

oldbatty

" OH for Gods sake, burning an effigy of Trump or Thatcher or Guy Fawkes is not the same as group of adults at a family party putting time and effort into mocking people who have recently been burnt alive.

Its not the same and you know it."
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You make my point for me , politicians are ' fair game ' to some.

I don't think the burning of effigies of Theresa May, Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson holding a severed head of Theresa May remotely amusing.

Nor do I find a crowd of people shouting ' Burn him '
meaning Johnson , remotely appropriate, you obviously do not agree.

You don't comment on vile placards and effigies of politicians with a noose around their neck or a knife in their back so I must presume you find such things of no contention either?

By the way I am aware that it is traditional for Lewes to burn political figures but given the increase in hate crime against our politicians I think it is about time society took a hard look at itself.

What influence do you think the Mayor will have? The government decides policies. It matters not what advice they're given because their view of "experts", that is people who actually do the job whether they be senior police officers, doctors, surgeons, teachers, social workers etc etc are dismissed.

Iam64 how about the Lord Mayor of London speaking up to those in parliament as afterall this is where the most murders are and have been ? Why are these people appointed if they don't look after the interests of their citizens ? Doesn't the Home Office have a say in the rising crime also ? Shouldn't they also be advising the government on crime etc ?

.*The social makeup of Grenfell Tower revealed clearly where the combined effects of class and race inequality meet. The geographer Danny Dorling has shown that black and minority ethnic people in social housing are disproportionately housed in flats, to the extent that, in his words, ‘the majority of children who live above the fourth floor of tower blocks, in England, are black or Asian.*

Apparently the effigy was purported to be racist, although, as we all know, there were people of many different nationalities who died in the tower

The majority of people who died had brown skin. The disgusting cardboard figures which were made had brown skin. Think very carefully now......can you join the dots?

OH for Gods sake, burning an effigy of Trump or Thatcher or Guy Fawkes is not the same as group of adults at a family party putting time and effort into mocking people who have recently been burnt alive.
Its not the same and you know it.

Intellectualising to avoid emotion can be helpful in some circumstances. It can also be taken to extremes and in this case Baggs, I fear you've done that.

EllenVannin - sorry to drag this back to a post you made some pages back but, yes many police have left but even more have been retired and not replaced. That's why we have a shortage, it isn't because the police are running, though some are -it's because we have a government that doesn't seem to give a fig about decent public services.

I expect the men involved are all such gentlemen they are protecting the women involved

Jal are you not also looking for the word ‘racist’?
a bit by the question maryeliza

Apparently the effigy was purported to be racist, although, as we all know, there were people of many different nationalities who died in the tower.

so what was their point?

I don't understand the mindset.

Apparently there has now been a sixth man arrested. My first thought when I saw the video on the news - what about the woman? She can clearly be seen helping to lift it on to the bonfire. How come she didn't give herself up?

Comments posted

" The men have been arrested under section 4a of the Public Order Act 1986, which covers intentional "harassment, alarm or distress" caused via the use of "threatening, abusive or insulting" words or signs."

So some posters do not feel it is harassment , threatening , abusive or insulting behaviour using words and signs when politicians are subjected to placards calling them bastards, cu--s etc., have effigies of themselves with knives in their back or hanging from a noose, their effigies burnt on a bonfire. I don't mean bloody Guy Fawkes I mean serving politicians .
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" However, I would dispute the fact that ^ Nobody was put at risk by their stupidity in making the video and posting it publicly.^ because we do not know what repercussions there could be in the minds of some sick people as a result of what appears to be race hatred."

That is my point when we see so visibly disgusting placards at political demonstrations and rallies, effigies of serving politicians hanging from a noose or being burnt on a bonfire what could the repercussions be in the mind of ' sick people '.

I will go back to the point I made earlier :-

Over the last 2/3 years politics has gained momentum in vileness, abusive acts and rhetoric. After the murder of Jo Cox the rally cry was ' HOPE NOT HATE ' , the call for respect in the political arena. What appears to have happened is it has become entrenched in the human Psyche for some , certainly not all, to think politicians are fair game .

Do those who find no issue with burning effigies of
serving politicians, vile placards, effigies of politicians hanging from ropes, knives in their back etc. not a think this too is a 'HATE CRIME ' ?
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Those involved in burning the Grenfell effigy were crass, vile and lacking in empathy , end of.

My point is I find a certain amount of hypocrisy about who, when , where other occasions where crass , vile and lacking in empathy displays of hatred are clearly displayed in public for all to see nobody gives a stuff to do or say equally that is wrong,.

If politicians are seen as ' fair game ' and some find it 'amusing ' to see these things happen they are aiding and abetting the ratcheting up of personal harm and violations we know our politicians are suffering.

Jal are you not also looking for the word ‘racist’?

As the police were interested in finding the people involved it seems that apart from the stupid crassness of the act there may have been a legal.infringement. It will be investigated to see if that is the case.

It was wrong, nasty and morally repugnant.

Whether it was a criminal act is up to the authorities to decide.

No Baggs it wouldn’t have been an impressive political comment without the racist context. It would have been a twattish piece of crassness whilst the enquiry is on going. * ab* I fully understand that something bring offensive does not necessarily make it criminal or that something criminal is not necesssrily offensive. But I wouldn’t use the word offensive here but rather say it is truly morally outrageous whether there is a prosecution or not.

And yes, racist twattiness is morally unacceptable, but not necessarily criminal

I wonder if we have become too hung up on what is or is not criminal as if that the sole criterion.
So misogyny and misandry need to be labelled “hate crime” to be unacceptable - what is wrong with simply calling it wrong?
This perverted and disgusting bonfire stunt can only be criticised if it is “criminally wrong” ?
What happened to just wrong?

We seem to be moving to an absence of moral compass, where anything is acceptable if it is not criminal (or in the case of some individuals, as long as they are not found out)

What an age to bring children up in. What an indictment of modern morality.

Bridgeit : 'I am confused , am I right in thinking that some posters beleive that these immature morons weren’t doing anything wrong?'

Same confusion and question. And at the same time, Baggs is talking about being 'crass and twattish- a joke' ...
and at the same time admits she has NOT even seen the video.

Unbelievable. Keeping away from GN on doctor's orders - and how right she is - it is so toxic at times

But not criminal because it was not a direct attack on other people. Nobody was put at risk by their stupidity in making the video and posting it publicly.

Well, it will be up to the police and the DPP (perhaps they have already decided, I have been out today) to investigate and decide whether or not it is.

However, I would dispute the fact that ^ Nobody was put at risk by their stupidity in making the video and posting it publicly.^ because we do not know what repercussions there could be in the minds of some sick people as a result of what appears to be race hatred.

And yes, racist twattiness is morally unacceptable, but not necessarily criminal

What the hell is racist twattiness?

batty, ‘disgusting racists on this site’ ? That is so untrue ,

Guy Fawkes is entrenched in our history - diabolical things happened in those days and it was so long ago that many people have lost sight of why his effigy is put on a bonfire or indeed why we 'celebrate' 'Bonfire Night' on 5th November.
People happily light Catherine wheels or Roman candles without knowing their significance too.

This 'episode', for want of a better word, is beyond belief. I think a DPP or ex-DPP has said, however, that it would be difficult to make a prosecution stick.
More's the pity.

But it sounds as if it was ineptly staged

Oh well thats ok then.

I think looking for alternative theoretical explanations for their behaviour is extremely shoddy and takes so called emotional detachment to a new low

Agree, it truly is a disgrace. Children, families, little kids in pyjamas died , burnt to death in that fire. Most of them were poor and brown skinned. Shame on you disgusting racists on this site.

Why is it worse than burning effigies of Guy Fawkes?

Absolutely unbelievable.

Guy Fawkes for whatever long winded reason has become entrenched in English culture. The more we understand, the less palatable it is. But we appear to be stuck with it.

White adults carefully preparing models of brown faced people trying to escape death in a burning building and thinking it was " fun" is no the same.

Do you get it now?