Scottish Independence

I certainly don't think anybody should apologise for both sides of a contentious subject being aired on Gransnet, especially if at least half the people responding are trying to answer the OP's question.

Only those of us really interested are probably going to read through seven pages, but nobody is forcing us either way. I have seen a suggestion on here that there should be a Scotland section, but then there'd have to be one for Wales and Northern Ireland as well, so News and Politics is probably the way to go for now.

Sometimes, I just look at the last few pages of something, then read back if I am interested. Sometimes, I just look at the OP's opening and think I am not really interested in that subject but I know it's there if I want to come back to it.

If we feel a thread has become unnecessarily long or even hijacked by arguments, we can always look away or start our own thread.

Lots of us surf silently here. It's a great learning experience.

Why on earth would you apologise to non-Scottish grans? As intelligent women I think they'd have an inkling of what they'd find on a thread entitled Scottish Independence. The interested posters make an informed choice and join the thread while those who are not interested make an equally informed choice and opt not to contribute (although they may read posts).
I for one welcome posts from 'interested bystanders '.

Maizie I'm sure things are just as bad in England but I still want to be part of UK. United we have more of a chance of economic progress with resultant improving living standards for all. We'll all have to go through a pretty bumpy ride over the next weeks and months though.

We met a couple on holiday who told us the Nats had caused so much division and aggression in their Scottish village that they were moving to a town to get away from it.

Possibly more than you do Maizie

I apologise to non Scottish Grans who must be pretty sick of reading all this

Not at all, Jane; it's fascinating stuff. I've Scots Nat nephew (English parents) so I do take an interest.

I do wonder how you'd enjoy living in England...

Free Scottish university student places are strictly capped leaving many with good highers unable to access uni places. But I suspect that you know all this already.
Large cuts to colleges has greatly affected the life chances of other potential students. Hence shortage of eg nursery nurses, qualified care staff with resultant long term problems for actual implementation of SNP big headline plans for nursery places and free personal care. Nurseries are unable to support plans and bed blocking is a huge problem due to problems trying to organise care packages. SNP have had 11 years to address these problems initiated by their own actions in their early days in charge.
I apologise to non Scottish Grans who must be pretty sick of reading all this. I'm pretty sick of having to live with it!

Why speak to College Staff? when we know that (for years and years) all teachers, both Primary and Secondary in Scotland, unlike in England, must be University Graduates.

It is more recently that all nurses must be University trained. The standard qualification is, I think BSC in Nursing.

By the way, I have just seen the IrnBru ad.
Although I detest the stuff, the ad made me lol!
Best Christmas ad so far?
I know, trivial non-sequitur, but loved Santa in a kilt!

So in Scotland the shortage of nurses is being effectively addressed while South of the border that self-inflicted wound still festers.
Cut immigration and lose nurses while imposing a minimum earning limit of £30 000 and lose more potential nurses.
What's happening in the South to attract and encourage nurses- never mind snide and cynical use of terms like enticement.

Yes they had to provide these bursaries due to shortage of staff as college places were greatly reduced. They had to provide enticement as a last resort. Talk to college staff.

Just checked this minute - Queensferry Crossing is OPEN, operating normally, no closures planned during December.

'Snagging' (not repair) works will entail some lane closures in the Spring of 2019, which may extend into the Autumn, because the Contractors are having difficulty resourcing the necessary materials.

My Information from The Forth Bridges Official site and Traffic Scotland, rather than the Unionist biased, so called 'Scottish' Press.

Now what fault can you find with the STEM teaching and Nurses Bursaries, both designed to encourage people into areas where there is a shortfall of qualified staff.

FYI latest news - repair work to continue till autumn 2019!

Just have a quick check on the queensferry crossing!

Of course Jane10 thinks WE'RE all brainwashed and thats because she and millions of others have been brainwashed for decades and more by Westminster .

Remember when in 2014 Nationalist were telling of Claire Field and we said it had untold wealth and we were called all sorts of idiots! Well who'd a thunk it..BBC reported just this week that Clair Field has 40 to 50 YEARS of OIl and its just gone into production ! Of course Westminster DIDN'T know that when they denied it in 2014 (ha ha) and they are delighted that the UK will have all these tens of thousands of barrels of oil every week to halp keep them afloat.

Brainwashed? You've got the wrong folk Jane...look closer to home.The same as you were with the Queensferry crossing when you insisted it was a disaster while the rest of the world has applauded it .You know if the SNP found a cure for cancer tomorrow you would still say they were SNP BAD ...no doubt they'd be affecting all the manufacturers of the drugs currently on offer ..or the staff who treat patients because they'd lose their jobs.

I used to know a couple of unionists just like you,one is my English son in law...he''s firmly on the side of Independence now especially after the EU fiasco...Barnier clearly said just this week there would be no queue as long as we gained Independence through legal methods.Thats what we have always aimed for .

When I can get to my PC to respond I will. I can address all your points. I'm just on my mobile at present.

Goodness I was in so much of a hurry earlier. I thought I'd proofread. Apologies to Mr Corbyn and Mr Blackford for the wrong title and the wrong name. However, everything else was from the heart.

I am old enough to remember when we had no devolution and Scotland is a much better place since we got it.

I reckon Brexit was the one issue capable of stirring any thoughts of Indy2 and it could have been handled so much better to get the Scots onside... but that bird has well and truly flown.

I can't see why anyone wants to mock or belittle what has been achieved north of the border. I'm very proud of Scotland.

I do know real people who no longer have to choose between health and heating and I do know real people who can now afford to help their children through university and I do know disabled people who don't have to pay the cruel bedroom tax for the spare room which stores their hoists, wheelchairs and vital enabling equipment.

That's not PR spin. It's devolved Scotland under administrations we voted for using a system where all voices are heard.

J10 thought you had flounced?

You seem to think we pro Independence people just blindly follow PR propaganda. It seems that you do but please don't tar us all with the same brush.

For example - as a delegate to the SNP conference, I took part in the debate and voted in favour of the Nurses and STEM teachers bursaries and have followed their progress through the SG and been really pleased to see these policies enacted. My own SOL (son out law), a science and computer technician in an Academy, was interested in the STEM bursary but has decided, 'now is not the time' but maybe next year. so I have learned a lot of detail about the scheme.

Some things are a matter of opinion but you surely cannot deny the things in Lucy's list which are plain for all to see (particularly the Forth Crossing, unless it was VERY foggy when you looked for it )

Lots of lovely spin being avidly snapped up by the believers! Keep going ladies. It's wonderful that you can continue to swallow all this.

Elegran no I am not in London but I live in an area where there is a lot of anti-Scots feeling. I have been following this thread in order to try and broaden my knowledge rather than following the local flow of bias and misinformation. Hope that makes sense.

So sorry, Opal's question, not Opan's.

Well said Lucylastic and Granny23.

Many here have tried to answer Opan's question and I hope it is now clearer why some Scots might prefer to be in the EU but not the UK in terms of respect and balance.

Not everybody, of course, and we all have a right to be heard.

Facts are brilliant chiels.

My own fear is that we will sleepwalk out of the EU, despite all the warnings, because too many people are fed up of the Tory shennanigans, combined with Labour ineptitude.

The new term is BOBs - bored of brexit.

I have watched many parliamentary "clashes" between Mrs May and Mrs Corbyn on this issue. He seems strangely constrained and she never answers a straight question, except to repeat how well we are all doing despite all evidence to the contrary.

Mrs May's idea of speaking to 3.9 million Scottish voters direct was a couple of hours in a village outside Glasgow, hearing what three people do in their jobs at a leather factory (no sound, of course, but you could read the lips).

Pathetic, disrespectful and downright daft move by a PM whose day job has been abandoned during this farce.

Listening to the radio over the past few days, I was struck by how many pundits say there needs to be a remainer in the upcoming TV debate.

Ms Sturgeon - and to a lesser extent Mr Robertson - are the natural choices as the overall leader and commons leader of the third largest Westminster-represented party in the UK, and as politicians whose stance has been fact-based and unwavering since 2014, when the situation we are in now was frankly unthinkable.

Every time Scotland is dismissed, ignored or swatted away, it adds fuel to the independence cause.

Ditto for all the insults and unfair belittling of a duly elected First Minister and her party, neither of whom/which is perfect, but a dashed sight better than the infighters and blusterers who are dragging us off a cliff, still arguing whether we should plunge to the jagged rocks below or do it in slow, agonising motion.

Can I just add 2 favourites of my own -

Retention of bursaries for Nurses in training

Introduction of bursaries for STEM graduates who wish to enter teaching (over 100 new Secondary School teachers already and another 100+ training now)

Here are some of the things the Scottish government has achieved using Scottish taxpayers' money -
Protecting free bus passes for over 60's and personal care for elderly; baby boxes for all newborns; 650 schools built or refurbished; prescription charges abolished; tuition fees abolished; childcare provision doubled to 30 hrs per week; 230,000 modern apprenticeships created; small business bonus introduced; 70,000 affordable homes completed; Queensferry Crossing; Borders Railway.

Aye, facts are chiels that winna ding...

This thread seems to have deteriorated into the usual sort of political and personal infighting. Nothing further to add to points I've already made including the large sums spent by SNP on PR and spin which, fortunately, does not convince most of us up here.
No point in continuing to add to the thread.