Importance of European unity

Regarding my post Sun 18-Nov-18 14:10:48

Somebody has come down on me like a ton of bricks in response to my post. Since I did not grow up in this country I do not know what life was like in the UK before the country joined the Europeans. I thought it would be interesting to hear the experience of the older generation. They will remember times before and after EU. Did they find things changed for the better or for the worse or did it not make much difference to their life?
A simple question just needs a simple answer.

Thank you crystaltipps and Bluebelle for answering my post in the spirit in which it was intended.

Day6 what a brilliant post 01.33.10 ??????????

All those in love with the EU won’t like it of course!

I too am an ardent remainer I can only see all the advantages we have had over the years and I have no feelings of being dictated too I prefer to be at peace i with a group of friends than outside fighting then
Brexit is bad for the country the EU and the World Cindersdad I entirely agree and I think our grandchildren will suffer badly because if this poor and very very selfish decision

My life hasn’t been made more difficult or restricted by being an EU citizen. Quite the opposite. I resent it being taken away ( hopefully will be able to get Irish passport like thousands of other)

Those who see Britain from the outside think we're mad. As an ardent REMAINER I think they are right. The gap between WW1 and WW2 was just over 20 years and since 1945 we have had around 70 years of peace.

A weakened Europe will be prey to Putin and Trump. Why can't our idiotic government see that. Jeremy Corbyn is the demise of an effective opposition.

When will be the BBC and other media outlets give REMAINERS a fair hearing. They complain about Brussels bullies.. What about ERG, UKIP and other Brexiteer bullies none of whom have ever come up with a sound argument in their favour.

Brexit is bad for the country, the EU and the World. Time will tell but then it will be too late.

absent I was really referring to Europe in the 1940s not 1960s. Fifty years ago I was also 18 and travelled in Europe and recall the excitement of different currencies and border crossings. It was very exotic for an Australian used to one country occupying an entire continent. Actually having borders you could cross in a car or train or even on foot!! How extraordinary!

I was thinking more of the sense of unity, hope and commonality I felt in 2000 compared to the utter devastation and horror of war torn 1940s Europe and thinking how much could change in half a century or so. I am afraid so many of the good things are now being lost.

Last paragraph (above) a cut and paste of the OP. Apologies. Forgot to delete. Not needed on the end of my post.

I have asked several times on this forum if a Leave voter could give examples of how their life will be improved once we have left the EU. Nobody has answered.

Oh dear.
Yours is a typical Remainer stance. Basically - write me a detailed thesis as to why leaving the EU is a good thing. Most Leavers sussed this approach fairly quickly.

I turn the tables and say "As a remainer, please break down the constituent parts of the EU framework and explain what they do, their role, their effect on the UK, who leads them, how are the committees made up and name the representatives of Slovenia, Estonia and Hungary who are able to veto concessions made to the UK if they so desire."

And of course, the very same questions could be asked of our parliament but really - does or has anyone pored over the ins and outs of EU legislation over the decades? Nope.

Can any of us recall what life was like before the Common Market? Did being in the Common Market make very much difference to the man in the street? Nope. Did any of us wake up in the morning in, say, 1997 and think "Oh, thank goodness we are in the EU? Life would be just awful if we weren't!" NO

Don't try and fool us that we are a backward third world country, unenlightened and living in the dark ages and dependent and relied on insight from....erm...Hungary...for example, to enable us to do things differently. We do human rights very well. WE are far more tolerant in the UK than many of the member states in eastern Europe.

Your argument really doesn't wash.

What perturbed me, and millions like me, back in 2016 was how bloody ineffective Cameron and the British government were in getting concessions from Brussels. The UK had no power to alter things or improve our standing, or indeed make any demands of the EU powers that be that suited OUR country.

The principle and the enormous amounts of money we were paying Brussels to be members of this club angered many, many people and had done for many many years.

We joined a common market, a trading community. Decades on the EU has morphed into an entirely different beast. Questioning our place in that community seemed to me. and many millions like me, to be eminently sensible.




Perhaps I should rephrase and ask "In what way has your life been made more difficult/unfair/become restricted by the UK being a member of the EU for the last forty years?

Fifty years ago I was 18 years old and, by then, had visited about 10 mainland European countries – some several times. I do not recall any problems or long delays crossing borders either by air or in a car. (A little later I did encounter more troublesome border crossings into East Germany, Romania and the USSR.) Of course, there was no common currency, but using francs, drachma, pesetas, lire, etc. was part of the fun of travel and didn't really present any sort of problem.

I have been and continue to be a long-term supporter of the European Union. All I am doing is pointing out that post-war travel in Europe wasn't as problematic as you imply.

As Joelsnan has posted Greta that question has been asked and answered ever since the referendum result.

Maybe it's more to do with not listening than not being told.

Greta
If you cared to check the threads since the whole Brexit issue broke, you will find time after time one or another Brexit voter explaining firstly their reasons for voting leave (and no it wasn't immigration or believing lies) and secondly the benefits they foresee in leaving to the point if total boredom with the same old question being repeated over and over again.
Therefore i suggest you trawl back over all Brexit posts, you will find plenty if useful information to resolve your curiosity.

Ohhps sorry it’s just updated.

Hi Greta, the lack of response to your question is astonishing, but understandable. I agree with what you have stated.
I fear we are about to take a very backwards step, our young & future generations deserved better from us.

Sillyoldfool: " ...but should not taking orders from a bunch of unelected, corrupt megalomaniacs."

We should be pleased then that our own leaders don't fall into the above category.

I have asked several times on this forum if a Leave voter could give examples of how their life will be improved once we have left the EU. Nobody has answered. Perhaps I should rephrase and ask "In what way has your life been made more difficult/unfair/become restricted by the UK being a member of the EU for the last forty years?

I'm not trying to be facetious. I just think it would be interesting to know.

Friends yes - United States of Europe - definitely no.
Not happy with the fact that Germany and France are looking to control more.

Not sure that many Australians, judging from family and friends would be happy to have their country run by an unelected Commission from the capitol city of another country by a puppet parliament?!! Of course we want to be close friends and allies with Europe , as we are with Australia etc, but we don't want to be run by them!!

I agree. We can be good friends with Europe in general but should not taking orders from a bunch of unelected, corrupt megalomaniacs.

United Europe sounds good to me. They're our neighbours which doesn't necessarily mean that we have to be best friends. The main thing is having strong representation within the EU parliament to make sure our MEP's stick up for us and adhere to a solid British agenda.

A clear objective view from a benevolent onlooker. Thank you apricity.
The frustration is that so many are willing to give up all the gains for no real advantage at all.

We can still be friends, as we are with many other nations, even if we are no longer part of the EU. I do not think we should lose sight of that.

It was refreshing to read your views Apricity. Sometimes when you're very close to events thoughts become skewed and people become entrenched. I welcome your thoughts from afar and endorse your view that the world needs a united Europe and like you hope that our shared humanity may find some solutions to the present discord- but may it happen soon please!