Police knocking criminals off mopeds

One service had an office and a secretary/receptionist, but no professional staff - the poor lady on the phone spent her whole time telling people there are no staff so no appointments.
That is shocking Luckygirl
I knew things were bad and services were stretched to their limits but that is dreadful.
Of course, many parents used to come to Child Guidance Clinics in despair at their "dreadful out-of-control children" (sic) - but, of course, it was the parents who so often needed the guidance, which they got in those days.

No it’s you that can’t help yourself - had you really no idea about the state of CAMHs? But can comment freely on the evilness of today’s young people? You’ll be telling us next tbwt you’ve no idea of what’s happening to SureStart and what that means to vulnerable families.

Just give it a rest maryeliza will you.

or can't you help yourself?

The state of CAMHS service throughout the country is extremely well known and documented and has been for years - improving it was yet another of TMs false promises. I’m surprised that anyone is shocked at this fact

trisher I was listening to the car radio yesterday and callers were talking about mopeds being 'rammed' by police cars!
They seemed to be missing the point.

That is shocking Luckygirl!

MissA there has been much research and debate about the genetic predisposition of some males to commit violent crimes. Apparently there is some evidence to support that theory but it is also stated that having those genes does not mean, in most cases, that person will go on to lead a life of crime.

I was at first horrified by this until my DS explained to me the nature and number of the crimes being committed and the ordinary citizens who suffer. Looking at reduction in the numbers of offences it does seem to work. It occurs to me that it may work because of the prestige involved. Committing moped crime probably carries a certain amount of prestige, being knocked off the bike (even if the police don't apprehend you) is demeaning. Perhaps this policy would do even better if the 'nudging' could be posted in social media, the crash helmet would make the offender unidentifiable except to close friends, who would have a good laugh at him.

Jalima1108 - we do still have a child guidance service in theory - it is now known as CAMHS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service). Sadly is it renowned for its underfunding, absence of qualified staff and huge waiting lists. In fact it is now a bit of a joke. One service had an office and a secretary/receptionist, but no professional staff - the poor lady on the phone spent her whole time telling people there are no staff so no appointments.

The kid-glove treatment that some of you suggest has been tried and tested and clearly doesn't work hence the need to halt this despicable type of robbery by knocking down the mopeds. If this is going to deter these thugs then so be it.

MissAdventure - If there are thousands of deprived children and only a minority who fall into crime, then that kind of disproves your theory.

Not so - for instance, smoking is known to have a close causative association with lung cancer, but some smokers get lucky and do not get it. None of us dispute the fact that smoking causes lung cancer.

Luckygirl a very thoughtful and interesting post, thank you.

I was fence-sitting regarding the 'nudging' of these young offenders off their mopeds, mainly because of the possible dangers to other road users and pedestrians. If other ways of catching them has proved to be ineffective it would seem to be proactive way to catch them 'red-handed', then the due process of law and hopefully their rehabilitation could begin.
Something needs to be done and urgently because of the dangers they pose and because, unless stopped, they could turn to even worse crimes. I'm sure that, behind every group of young people doing this, there are gangmasters and they are the ones who need to be stopped.

Do we still have a Child Guidance Service in this country? I have no idea these days.
The education system has to change so that young people with non-academic skills feel valued and valuable, rather than thrown on the scrap-heap while the teachers battle with tests, stats, form-filling etc.
I agree
It seems to me to be a case of either university or the 'little hope' alternative whereas society needs people with many other skills too.

It isn't always deprived children who commit crime.
Its very naive to think so.
Nobody has a definitive answer to the 'nature or nurture' question.
If there are thousands of deprived children and only a minority who fall into crime, then that kind of disproves your theory.

Don't our parents mould us into who we are ?

Nobody has to be a Philadelphia Lawyer expert to realise the backgrounds of these miscreants ! Nor what their futures hold.

You should try having a word with the police themselves then perhaps you'll find out that at least one member of families such as these has a record. What hope for their offspring or can you answer that too ?
The police are sick to their back teeth of " go lightly " people like you. These are hardened criminals we're talking about not petty thieves ! Your psychobabble doesn't work for people like this.

There are thousands of deprived children so why is it just a minority who fall into crime ?

Yes, luckygirls post.
Brilliantly put, well reasoned and exactly right, I would say.

EV it’s just not that simple - that’s the problem. Read Luckys post and reflect

I’m off out but I’m answer to EllenV - I suggest you read Luckygirl’s post. Despite having years of experience of working with the kind of families being discussed here, she doesn’t claim to be an expert. I completely agree with her points about the need to invest in children and families rather than continue to build a bland culture

Luckygirl what an absolutely stunning post. It sums up and articulates all aspects of the issue thoroughly and logically. I’m in awe.

So who was at fault in the Bulger case,2 10 year old boys or their parents ?

" Provocative and nonsensical " Iam64 ? Please explain how ?

There are 2 things being discussed here:

1. The presence in our society of criminals (in this instance mainly young moped-riding thieves) and what causes these people to lead this life. There is a temptation to try and apportion blame somewhere - schools, parents, social media, drug-taking etc. But the truth is we do not know exactly what is behind all this - we can take an educated guess if we happen to be knowledgeable about social deprivation - which most of us are not. My own take on this is that there needs to be more resources poured into prevention measures, particularly catching the drug pushers and barons, prevention measures improved regarding the import of drugs, family centres for struggling families where the culture that generates young drug addicts can be tackled etc.

I spent many years as a SW in deprived areas of one of Britain's major cities and the seeds of this crisis were clear to see - family support measures and prevention were in their infancy, but held out some hope for these deprived communities. They have now been withdrawn, prevention has been jettisoned and crisis management is the name of the game - hence this mess.

Most of the young people perpetrating these appalling crimes are themselves damaged and vulnerable and easy prey for older criminals and drug pushers.

2. Is the policy of "nudging" these young people off their mopeds and risking their lives and the lives of bystanders justifiable? I think we are right to have concerns about this, and I would guess the police themselves might be uncomfortable about it - certainly they could be placing themselves at risk of prosecution. My personal view is that it is a very dubious policy - not because I do not recognise the appalling nature of the crimes and the need to find a way of preventing these - but because in general we, as a society, have quite rightly turned our backs on capital punishment, indiscriminate use of guns by the police; and I think this policy falls into these categories.

I think it is important to remember that we have also turned our backs on these young people as they grow up, by piling deprivation upon deprivation with austerity policies. Pulling this back now is a mammoth task but is essential - resources targeted at PREVENTION are what is needed. Will it ever happen? - I suspect not. As a society we now seem to prefer a blame culture rather than one that nurtures its children to provide the sort of role models and care that lead to people feeling included in society and able to take their place as decent citizens. Blame is entirely appropriate, but it is not the individual damaged young people to which it should be directed.

The policies of successive governments have to change. Money spent on families, education, social care etc. is money well spent. The education system has to change so that young people with non-academic skills feel valued and valuable, rather than thrown on the scrap-heap while the teachers battle with tests, stats, form-filling etc.

There will always be those who live on the fringes of society and commit unthinkable crimes; the job of governments is to initiate policies that minimise this; not to withdraw support to the most vulnerable.

I am 64. Feckless !!!but acid throwing, machete wielding , a little more than feckless, Pulling a policewomen out of her car and punching her on to the ground , ?

Miss A , you are right, the children do need help , from their parents and discipline in schools , teachers can't reprimand children as they would have parents coming up to schoolcomplaining their child has been told off,

Surely if what you're saying is true, Ellan, then the children need all the help they can get?

What a provocative and nonsensical post ellanVannin. Or, am I missing something, are you an expert on child development and children and families?