Les gilets jaunes

It doesn't help that not so long ago we were being encouraged to switch from petrol to diesel fuelled vehicles. I think a good deal of the anger in France is completely understandable pissed-off-ness at the ruling elite who never suffer from the fallout of their mistakes and their rulings based on incomplete science.

I think diesel cars have always been more popular in France, Baggs. When we first moved we struggled to get an automatic, petrol fuelled car because they were so unpopular. We then had another petrol car and finally switched to diesel four years ago, before all the scandals came to light. We are pretty fed up about it.

Yup. We are too.

My OH has a diesel car which he loves and bought when diesel prices were low and we were being encourage to buy diesel. From 2020( I think it may come earlier) it will cost him £25 to drive to my ES house which is a 10 minute drive away because of the ultra emisssion zone in London. He is talking of getting a milk float. No we don’t do massive protests like the gilets jaunes in the U.K., I think the last one was I over the poll tax, but be careful what you wish for.

Yes indeed crystaltips do be careful what you wish for. There is a great deal of disruption here and extreme anger from some quarters but the end result will probably not justify the means.

Governments encouraged us to switch to diesel (offering incentives even) and now proceed to condemn the very fuel/vehicles they promoted. What do they expect us to do? Soon our diesel cars/vans will be worth nothing but their scrap value and that’s okay is it?

It's a big environmental/health problem though, isn't it?

Diesel emissions are more of a health hazard than petrol emissions, especially in urban areas where diesel use is more concentrated and where shorter journeys at lower speeds make the engine technology designed to 'clean' the damaging emissions less effective.

I don't know what the solution to the problem of loss of value of diesel vehicles is. A scrappage scheme, perhaps?

We have 4 diesel vehicles; I manage to partially assuage my guilt about this by the fact that we live in a rural area and do very little urban driving and that we intend our next cars to be hybrid or electric.

We had diesel cars for about a decade because we thought they were environmentally safer and, since we do some quite long journeys, more economic to run.

Fortunately we live in a rural area and did very little town driving in our diesel cars.

I do not think scrappage schemes are much help. Consider the amount of energy used to build a new car, the pollution caused in getting in all the materials needed, from iron ore to foam for upholstery, there will be less effect on global warming and pollution if diesel vehicles are just run until they have to be scrapped. Possibly a levy on new diesel vehicles.

Is France representative of the sunlit uplands that the EU is, the one that remainers weep for?

French army to quell anarchy: Macron could put troops on the streets after rioters stole an assault rifle from cops, attacked officers, burned dozens of cars and left 133 hurt across the nation in protests over tax hikes

No one has mentioned Brexit. France is a sovereign country not “run” by the EU anymore than we are. Not all negative things that happen in an EU member country are the fault of the EU, Believe it or not. No one has said the EU consisted of “sunlit uplands” I thought that was the Brexit dream of the disunited kingdom.

crystaltipps.
You believe that if you wish. I will choose what I believe to be the case.
The 3Ms are finished. Macrom May and Merkel and this situation in France is just one indicator.

Love France. The public cleanliness and efficiency, the roads without potholes. The gilets jaunes. We have had a house in France for nearly 30 years and we have seen waves of protests come though, nearly all about fuel, although there was the time that butchered beef carcases were strewn across the main road outside Macdonalds.

The well organised A&E, our local restaurant where we get a superb 4 course meal for £30. I could go on and on.

I agree M0nica. I was sad when we left, and still wish we could keep a small place there.
Although my heart is here in the UK, in spite of all the problems.
France is nearly 4 times the size of the UK, with a similar size population, so there's a much bigger variation in lifestyles, political views etc.

ps France is 3 times bigger, not 4.

I could not run my business with electric vehicles ( and hybrids are just way way too expensive ) . There are 2 public charging point in the entire town ! Ha ha and considering the distance you can get in a charge the lads would spend more time stopped than started . Fine if you tootle around the town but in the workplace ? Pointless .

A number of things in your post, *gillybob.

For a start, no-one is going to ban the use of diesel and make everyone use petrol, hybrid or electric vehicles overnight. To me it would make sense to start with private cars, and 'encouragement' rather than anything mandatory.

There are 2 public charging point in the entire town !

If there was more demand for them then more would be provided. Battery technology is improving all the time so the distance covered in one charge is bound to increase in the future.

Fine if you tootle around the town

But that's what a fair amount of commercial vehicles actually do. So it would be reasonable to expect them to be able to cope with electric vehicles. Or even hybrids, which charge themselves when they are moving.

If change was initially restricted to private cars and short trip commercial vehicles it would make a huge contribution to cutting toxic emissions, particularly in urban areas, while, hopefully, research and development of emission controls would lessen the problem of longer distance use (though that, in itself, is less damaging even now. It's the stopping and starting which is a big problem)

At least we should be making a start instead of wringing our hands over the inherent problems and dismissing the idea.

How do we begin to produce enough electricity to fuel electric cars and commercial vehicles?

The situation in France is not anything new, it’s one of their ways of protesting against whatever new legislation they don’t like. It is probably a good thing for the environment to reduce the use of diesel, but when it hits people in the pocket they understandably don’t like it.

No need to totally ban the vehicles (yet) MazieD just price the diesel so high that no one can afford to buy it.

I don’t know any businesses who rely on getting from Ato B who have a good word to say for electric vehicles ( at this stage in development) the range is still far too low and until this and charging times are vastly improved they are non starters. ( literally). Also once the battery is finished then so is the vehicle . They are not economically replaceable as it stands .

Hybrid vehicles are VERY expensive !

Ha ! That’s the next thing Jalima if every vehicle on the road suddenly became electric where would all this electricity come from ? Nuclear power stations maybe

We lost a couple of free parking spaces a couple of years ago to an electric re-charging point in town gillybob but so far no-one has ever seen anyone using it.

although I saw a disabled driver parking there and he had a petrol driven car.

I'm all in favour of nuclear power. That is another point in favour of France. 90% of its electricity comes from non carbon dioxide producing sources. 72% nuclear, 18% renewables, only 10% hydrocarbons (gas, oil, coal).

No need to totally ban the vehicles (yet) MazieD just price the diesel so high that no one can afford to buy it.^

I don't understand you, gillybob.

Firstly, where in my post did I say anything about 'banning' diesel vehicles?

Secondly,are you thinking that a swingeing increase in diesel price wouldn't apply to your business vehicles? Because if you don't, you're suggesting cutting off your nose to spite your face there, aren't you?

if every vehicle on the road suddenly became electric

But we're not talking about 'suddenly', are we? [wish we had an 'eye roll' smiley]

Hybrid vehicles are VERY expensive

So were motor cars when they were first developed. Now just about everyone's got one...

Evidently gas can be produced from cereal waste after harvest:
www.ladepeche.fr/article/2018/11/30/2916611-si-tout-gaz-consomme-gers-etait-produit-localement-biomasse.html

Our local council produces electricity from food waste.