I predict.....

I've just been catching up with this thread and am astounded to see that anyone could think that this government policy of privatising the NHS is anything other than detrimental!
Another area where it's worse South of the border.

What about education? Businesses and fat cats setting up free schools to suit themselves rather than in areas where school places are actually needed?
Wonder how Bevan would have felt while we were celebrating 70 years of the NHS but distorting his vision as we dismantle it and sell it off to profiteers!

I have to say, Fennel, that not joining the euro was a very wise move on the part of the British. It means that we still have a sovereign currency and can run our economy in whatever way we please without having to conform to the 'rules' which euro using countries have to. Although we still suffer from the neo-liberal economic theories which have dictated a needless austerity policy we are not obliged to do this, unlike countries like Greece and Ireland which had to conform to this policy in order to be bailed out of their financial crises. We could run our economy along Keynesian lines, putting more money into it to save and create jobs, if we wanted to.

After the 2007/8 banking crisis, and after the 2016 referendum when the pound fell sharply, we were able to create £billions in Quantitative Easing to prevent the banks failing and to prop up the pound. No country in the euro would have been able to do that off its own bat.

Fennel
That's ok
If you are interested in the euro issue I would suggest reading any articles by lars Christensen

I've already answered that Trisher.

So rather than posting about how JC is a Marxist etc why not say which Labour policies you dislike notanan2? or do you in fact not know what the policies are and are you just regugiitating the opinions of the right wing media?

No its not. You don't get free reign in that kind of coalition, this brings the end result closer to centre than it would have been in a labour majority.

The Labour party has presented policies which would acheive its aims. As the opposition it is its job to point out the inadequacies of the government. Mind you they are really spoilt for choice!

notanan2 that is delusional. Aneurin Bevin hated the Tories
he had a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. "So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin
The things that are said now are moderate by contrast.

Trisher labour cannot forever coast on the default of being the "not tory party"

Tories being bad does not make labour good.
They are both bad, in different ways.
I think labour is worse. Thats not the same thing as saying I <3 Tories, don't you get that?

apologies petra!
I have an inbuilt memory of talking to a man at the woodyard in France about this where we were buying some fence posts . In my primitive french.
He asked me - why didn't the british join the euro? I assumed that this was a very important issue for the French. Which it is.
I had to think for some time and then replied 'parce que nous sommes une race insulaire, independente."
Which we are finding out to our cost.

notanan you may care but you are deluded if you imagine all Tories do. They are the party of Jacob Rees Mogg. They believe in a low tax economy where services are cut to the bone. How does that square with caring for the NHS?

This is why the labour movement under JC has become so toxic

Rather than as in the pre JC days appreciating that your neighbour/brother/friend is decent and cares in their own way, but it may just be that their way is different to your way and you strongly disagree with them re what should be done about these issues you both care about (and how it should be done)....the done thing now is just to write off anyone who disagrees re approach as not caring because THE ONLY way to care is to get behind JC...apparently..

So do you admit that under this Tory government NHS waiting lists have increased, targets are not being met and the service is being run down, most likely so that the best bits can be sold off to private companies?
That the numbers of people using food banks and the number of homeless have increased? That there is a huge housing crisis because private sector rents are rising faster than most people can cope with?
That the jobless figures are being manipulated through the use of zero hours contracts (can someone working 1 hour a week really be said to have a job?)
That universal credits are unfit for purpose and are driving people to despair and even death?
I could go on but do you really think these are the result of a caring party?

Where do you get these notions about the NHS & Labour from, notanan? Serious question.

From labours own actions and words.

trisher look at any party's manifesto: they all have more or less similar headings just with different approaches because ALL VOTERS CARE ABOUT THE KEY ISSUES. health being one of them. Thats the whole point WE ALL CARE.

Disagreeing with momentum re how to address key issues is not the same thing as not caring about key issues

I think labour would turn the NHS to ash if the got it right now. I also think labour voters care just as much as me about the NHS I just dont agree re game plan! Sadly labour voters dont return the favour..

Its just so boring
"If you dont vote labour you dont care about the nhs and the poor"
No. I do care. AND I think momentum labour majority would be disastrous in relation to those issues. I vote against labour because I care about the NHS, and housing, and welfare, and dont want labour running us all into the bloody ground!

notanan2 are you seriously proposing that the NHS was not aLabour concept

No Im not. I am saying that not only labour voters care about the NHS. Everyone cares about the NHS we just disagree re how it can best be maintained. Pretty much every other kind of voter other than momentum supporters gets that we all care, we just disagree on how best to tackle issues.

IMO labour works best when it is centre left, or when it is forced to be more centrist due to coalition. That is when labour ideas become practical and applicable as well as idealistic.

Right now it is just straight up divisive

My keyboard doesn't have a Euro sign - just a $ and a $
German company, keyboard made in China

Fennel
I assume your post @ 19.23 was referring to my post @18.56.
I said: "as you know we have walked away from the £1. something billion invested in the Galileo project
I did not say we have walked away from the £1
As there are 19 countries in the euro are you saying that the other 8 countries aren't true members either?

I don't think that was what petra meant Fennel, I thought she meant the £1.something billion (in GBP) we had invested in the Galileo project.

"As you know we have walked away from the £1. "
Because we never joined the euro we have never been a true member of the EU.

My post was in reply to Petra

I know it’s ridiculous isn’t it!!! ??

The Tories voted 21 times - yes 21 times against the formation of the NHS including second and third readings.

GrannyGravy
As you know we have walked away from the £1. something billion invested in the Galileo project.
Did you know that 2 tracking stations for Galileo are *on our land, the Falkland Islands and Ascension.
We can turn this off any time we want: have any of the numpties in the 'negotiating' team thought of using this as bargaining chip, I very much doubt it, they couldn't punch their way out of a paper bag