BREXIT: Planning for No Deal.

Nonnie, the whole result of the first referendum should be "null and void". That would be an insult to seventeen and a half million people who voted in that ballot. It would also be the most irrational act that any government could carry out.

If you really wish to see instability in Britain Nonnie just keep on encouraging that.

I feel that it was the actions of a large number of "retired armchair risk takers" in that referendum that greatly contributed to the crisis we face in this country now.

I disagree Grandad, those scenarios are the overwhelming reasons why we should stay in the EU and always have been. Therefore rational argument will not be involved. We should stand up to thugs whether few or many to give in to bullies is wrong, very wrong.

Nonnie, I believe that in a second referendum it may develop into "more than a few thugs" causing problems on our streets. Britain has never been so divided on any issue in modern times and when people see their jobs at stake and within that their homes and welfare of their families then even the most rational and normally stable people can become irrational.

That we can see in Britain already, and in any instability, it is always the young and older people that suffer the most.

Really Grandad? The electorate voted how they voted! I suggest to you that we all know that. That entire debacle has been debated endlessly and many agree that it should be null and void. The only democratic thing to do is to give the electorate chance to put it right

The electorate voted how they voted, and we as a nation have to go forward from there. However, there also seems to be no consensus on how we do the above

There would seem to be a consensus in parliament that to just "crash out" of the EU would be disastrous for Britains manufacturing industry, the higher service industries, and many professions. However, to just override the referendum result would be equally disastrous for democracy in Britain.

To call it a total mess is very much an understatement in my view.

Grandad, your post seems to suggest we shouldn't have another vote because some thugs would cause trouble. Imo that is an appalling attitude. We should stand up to such people and not bullied by them

Varian

" there is a majority view that no-deal would be utterly disastrous and should not be permitted to happen."
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That's why in post at 13.32 I found it interesting Labour MP Jess Phillips voiced ' AGAINST ' Mays Deal and yet Tory MP Mike Wood who is associated with the ' ERG Group ' voted ' FOR ' Mays Deal and the Jaguar Land Rover comment.

Too many people from ironically Leave / Remain factions are chancing their arm voting down ' A Deal' to stop ' No Deal '

Bonkers

The trouble is that there is no concensus for anything much right now, but I have heard it said many times that there is a majority view that no-deal would be utterly disastrous and should not be permitted to happen.

At the time of the 2016 referendum, the majority of MPs, who were generally better informed about the EU than the average voter, were against leaving the EU and although there may have been a change in the exact numbers since the 2017 GE, we can be quite confident that is still the case.

Varian

Thank you it was you You Gov for The Peoples Vote.

I often wonder how the questions in poll's are formatted.

Funny Jess Phillips has been mentioned in your link I mentioned her in a post 13.32 as she was on Sunday Po!itics talking about Mays Deal.

It must be confusing for ALL our MP's how to assess the situation.

varian, I do not believe there is any consensus or majority within parliament to revoke article 50. The government has the power to request the EU to suspend the article, but the truth is, it is for the MPs in the House of Commons to find a way through this crisis.

Exactly how they carry that out is the dilemma they have brought on this whole country.

If Parliament cannot resolve things we may need a second referendum, but my preference is for our MPs to "take back control", and do what they are paid to do - act in the best interests of their constituents and the country. They now know that any kind of brexit would leave us worse off and diminish our standing in the world. Our MPs should vote to revoke Article 50 (which we can do unilaterally without consulting the other 27 EU countries).

varian, I believe that many people (myself included) now feel that a second referendum should not be called as the severe divisions already apparent in the country would become even more pronounced in a new referendum campaign.

Anyone should be able to easily imagine what could happen at referendum meetings or on the streets as those campaigns progressed. There have been any number of reports of abuse, fights and other ancillary violence taking place in workplaces, so, do we really want to release those pent up forces onto the streets.

I did up to a few weeks ago support a second referendum, but I feel as a country we are too near the March leaving date for that to take place without bringing the stability of the whole country into question.

POGS we might realise that but for some the EU member states (they do not like to be addressed as EU Countries) can do no wrong.

Granny Gravy

Germany now 'biggest breaker of EU rules', according to official figures
Angela Merkel's government worst offender in Europe

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-merkel-germany-breaks-more-eu-rules-worst-bottom-class-a8198271.html

E U State Aid is a joke and some get away with it some don't it appears to me.

No, OPGS, it was a survey commissioned by The People's Vote, but carried out by an independent polling company. There is a big difference.

Varian

Wasn't your survey carried out by The Peoples Vote who's mantra is:-

' We demand a People's Vote '.

The EU has granted huge subsidies to several car manufacturers (and other manufacturers) to set up in a few European mainland countries to appease them and keep them onside.

I am not by the way saying Brexit is not causing companies to reassess their production requirements in the UK but I am annoyed that Brexit is continually claimed by some to be the be all, end all reason without accepting the UK is not on it's own having the problem of manufacturing plants being shifted .

A survey reported in November showed that -

"Voters in every Labour area now support a Final Say referendum on the Brexit outcome, piling fresh pressure on Jeremy Corbyn to back the idea.

The huge survey also found that a majority of Labour supporters in the Westminster seats the party holds back staying in the EU – despite claims that traditional supporters are still pro-Brexit.

It has prompted one senior Labour backbencher in a Leave-voting constituency to join the campaign for a fresh public vote, while a second said he was close to the same decision."

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-final-say-referendum-labour-leave-eu-jess-phillips-a8615011.html

This survey was before the huge defeat of May's deal. I would not be surprised if the support for a second has increased since then.

Grandad

" So,GrannyGravy13 do we not want that new production to be in Britain when the car industry recovers, as it always does. "
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Obviously the answer is yes but is Brexit the reason factories are shifting production throughout Europe , usually to the Eastern European Members or China etc?

www.thelocal.fr/20181213/ford-accused-of-treachery-in-france-over-factory-closure-in-south-west

" Around 850 jobs are on the line at the Blanquefort plant in the southwest of the country, which has turned out gear boxes for Ford since 1972."

It's rather confusing as there are many labour voters who defected and voted for UKIP, voted to leave the EU and now, having achieved that result, have gone back to voting Labour.

Nonnie

Ah well.

The use of the term ' Labour Voters ' depends on the spin behind the reason for using it.

' Labour Voters ' if trying to support the idea they voted Remain /want another Referendum is connected to paid up Labour Party Members /Momentum.

Labour Voters as in the general public Labour voter is another point in question as to what they voted and feel about another Referendum. That is why the Labour Party are stuck on the fence ! Who will give them the result they need if a Snap Election takes place????

To declare Labour Voters did this / want that is disingenuous.

Saying Paid Up Labour Party Members voted this way or tuther holds sway.

Nonnie, it was Labour party members that have demonstrated they want a second referendum. The broader Labour movement in the country have not stated they wish for second referendum, and Labour voters, especially in the north of England, have demonstrated through opinion polls that they will not support the party in the future if they come out in support of a second referendum.

GrannyGravy13, in regard to your post @ 13:44, the car industry is in decline at present due to an increasing global slowdown. However, it is also in a major transition towards electrically powered vehicles.

In the above, new productions, lines will be required and those new lines will be setup in Europe rather than Britain if the UK leaves the EU without a customs agreement, and tariffs and bureaucracy impedes British production.

So,GrannyGravy13 do we not want that new production to be in Britain when the car industry recovers, as it always does.

To use the adage "once it's gone its gone."

Grandad I read that over 70% of Labour voters wanted a second referendum