just read these comments on FB Do YOU think the H O L'S is a justifiable expense in a cash strapped society

I agree with you,*notanan2*.

and AMs and MSPs …..

SOME of us Brexiteers ARE quite vocal about BOTH the HOL and the European Central Bank, European Commission, and the European Council (and a host of others in the EU)

The European Central Bank? I hadn't noticed that the Bank of England, its UK equivalent, has any 'democratically elected' component.

The European Commission is the EU equivalent of our Civil Service; that's not 'democratically elected either.

The European Council comprises the democratically elected heads of member states' governments.

Do tell us about the 'host of others'

In fact, in the UK only members of the House of Commons and local government councillors are 'democratically elected'. Not exactly superior to the EU...

Expensive, undemocratic but... might save our bacon more than we realize. Count me out!

Whilst on paper I think an unelected Upper Chamber is a travesty, in practice I think they do good work and provide a safeguard and do their job better than the elected MPs in a lot of cases.....
...... so Im torn. I think they save our bacon more than we realise.

Neither are all the quangos in UK..same difference..they have been set up by those elected

what they perceive as non - democratically elected representatives in Brussels

SOME of us Brexiteers ARE quite vocal about BOTH the HOL and the European Central Bank, European Commission, and the European Council (and a host of others in the EU) not being elected and therefore not being democratically representative.

Apart from the European Parliament, ALL EEC bodies are unelected. Never mind being perceived as non - democratically elected! They aren't elected to at all!

It seems odd, in these Brexit days, that those who wanted to " take back control" from what they percieve as non - democratically elected representatives in Brussels are not more vocal about the HoL.

I think these deliberately emotive comparisons with the homeless, children etc etc are juvenile. It isn't a case of either or.

I agree M0nica. It's brought up by some posters in most discussions.

I agree that the perks and privileges of being in the HOL are dreadfully excessive given the times in which we live. I do not feel they are earned or deserved, nor do I think many who are honoured merit their seat in the chamber.

An open and thorough review of this rather anachronistic part of our political system is long overdue.

Democracy: abolish unelected bodies.

I'm proud to have personally known this officer and gentleman.

I agree.

I think that we should be the ones to decide, not other politicians.

Ultimately the HOL should be replace by an elected second chamber, and certainly not elected by the dreadful FPTP system which we still use to elect the HOC..

We definitely do not need so many. Surely an Upper Chamber should be smaller?

I think there should be a limit on the number of Lords , say 500, and every year they should expel a number who have not contributed to their work.

The present number is too high, although it is good to have a revising chamber with expertise in many fields which may be lacking in the lower house . We should get rid of those Lord Fowler describes as "passengers".

The use of CAPITALS is the sign that Paddyann is posting!
I'm not entirely sure of the value of the House of Lords but could see its potential if the 'Lords' could be fairly elected.

Had noticed this post but didn’t know what it was about because of the abbreviation H O L’s. in title. Thought someone was referring to holidays?. Had a quick look and realised my mistake. I don’t live in UK so maybe that explains my ignorance.

As long as the citizens in question are intelligent and expert in some field or other that would be useful, otherwise no.
It has become common now to say that something shouldn’t happen in our cash strapped society.
If you apply that logic to everything, you would have no support for art or public buildings or anything else that is worthwhile.

Perhaps a PR system of electing members of an Upper Chamber, without the same constituency boundaries too?

Can't agree with you about an elected chamber, trisher. We need less tribal party politics, not more.

The idea of a 'citizens' assembly', chosen at random, looks interesting

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_assembly

I think a second chamber is essential, but not an unelected chamber. The problem is that no-one is prepared to go the whole hog and abolish them (power and influence at work?) so people tinker with it, like Tony Blair did and make it a bigger mess than ever.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_hereditary_peers_under_the_House_of_Lords_Act_1999
As for the number of women in HOL- well it's ridiculous and they weren't even entitled to sit until 1958.

Whatever the solution I don't think an elected second house is a particularly good idea. The Lords is a fairly politically neutral house at the moment and does a reasonable job of scrutiny. I'd hate it to end up as a 2 party monolith.

Lots of stupid speculation about what will happen to MEPs. They'll have their very often undeserved, think UKIP MEPs severance payments and pensions. I can't see any need for them to go the the Lords.

I think an Upper House is essential, but not an ever-burgeoning House of Lords with each party vying to increase their influence over decision-making.

If looked at dispassionately, this system of unelected cronyism could even be considered to be corrupt although I am sure the Lords themselves are not.

You are right Jalima1108 the upper house should be more regulated and have elected members.
Don't get me started on the MEPs and their gravy train.

To most people £300 a day, with, as I understand it, very little regulation as to how much time should be spent in the House, is a lot of money. On top of that are the subsidised facilities. This linked article of the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, for those who are interested, is quite revealing. www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2012-06-20/ermine-and-expenses-an-insight-into-house-of-lords