So-called ‘migrant crisis’

Anja, my belief is that charity begins at home ....now why doesn’t that surprise me! Missed the point if the parable somewhat which says exactly the opposite.

That to me is the battle cry of the xenophob.

GrannyGravy I think the aid to India has either stopped or is about to stop. I heard this a year or two ago when I felt the same about it.

I think India is doing very well without our help. When we were there we saw just how important education is and how much they help people to improve their lives. Yes, they still have a long way to go but I don't think it will be long before they have a huge and successful economy.

With regard to 'safe' countries I thought this was an interesting piece by an immigration lawyer:

www.freemovement.org.uk/refugees-claim-asylum-upon-arrival-first-safe-country/

He paints this scenario

Imagine that revolution once more washed against our strong and stable shores, and the government has been overthrown by a man, let’s call him Figel Narage, intent on persecuting anyone who did not enjoy drinking bitter or who would not swear allegiance to the Queen.

People were being rounded up and forced to sink pints of London Pride while saluting a portrait of Elizabeth II in town squares up and down the country. Those who refused to do so were having their heads shaved and their foreheads branded with the € sign.

You’ve been tee-total ever since that embarrassing episode at Uncle Kevin’s wedding, and you once retweeted a cartoon of the Queen doing something unmentionable to a corgie. It is no longer safe for you in the country.

You also have a fairly strong refugee claim as a person with a well-founded fear of persecution for a Convention reason (particular social group – tee-totallers, and/or anti-monarchists), unable to avail yourself of the protection of the state (which is the persecutor) and with no internal flight alternative within the UK (as the state controls all areas of the country).
So, one day you don’t turn up at work, dodge the road blocks on the M3, and pay a smuggler at Southampton docks to row you and your young family to Normandy.

However, you know that the French authorities are fed up of asylum applications from émigré tee-totallers, and have heard stories of applications being delayed for months, even years, particularly in the regions of Bordeaux, Champagne and Cotes Du Rhone.

You don’t speak a word of French. Having secured your immediate safety, your priority is to find accommodation, provide for your family, and get the kids back to school. You have concerns as to whether the French can provide this

On the other hand, there’s a sizeable tee-totaller community in Spain who have also moved from England following Narage’s ‘Purple Revolution’, and your wife’s cousin has got a spare room where you and your family will be able to stay until you get yourselves sorted.

You studied Spanish at A-level so you can get by in the language, and there is the possibility of work through an old friend based at the University of Salamanca.

Do you claim in Paris, or continue to Madrid?

(But do read the whole article)

I agree GrannyGravy

If I was fleeing with my family I would like to think that I would stay in the first place I felt safe.

If these people do not feel “safe” in mainland Europe why is this do you think?

My thoughts are that the population as a whole gets confused between a destitute refugee family and young men who whilst some have fled from a war zone, some are undoubtedly illegal economic migrants.

The UK has historically always helped those in need, our overseas aid budget is vast. Admittedly it is not always allocated to the most needy, India has its own space program but we send aid. I guess that is a throwback from the days of our Empire.

I would not be happy to see our borders closed to immigration from the rest of the world. On the other hand I am not comfortable with the UK being seen as a “soft touch” for illegals.

It is my understanding that the UK takes a lower proportion of asylum seekers per head of population than most other EU countries but it feels like people don't take that into account.

The UK sends huge amounts to help refugees living just outside Syria so that they will be able to return to their country one day. Unfortunately it appears that it is the middle classes with the money to pay traffickers who are able to leave and start new lives in Europe. I doubt they will want to go back to help restore their country after all the trouble ends.

If we had a system which noted when people came into the country and when they left it might help a bit. At the moment we rely on employers and landlords to check that people have the right paperwork to stay and I suspect that can be forged. I have been told it is very easy to get a NI number too.

Of course we should help those who are desperate to flee dangerous countries but maybe we should find a way of checking they are genuine as there seems to be a feeling that some are economic migrants rather than asylum seekers.

Does anyone think it was wrong to bring Malala here?

The constant argument put forward is ‘ we need immigrants for the NHS etc. Not all work in hospitals and care homes, I think it wrong to use this and dismiss the larger number who do not work in health care.

Yes an open door to all is compassionate. But is it wise?

This is all damage limitation. If men didn't always seem to have the urge to fight then the people of these different countries could get on with growing crops and developing their economies.
Nothing changes. Swords aren't turned into ploughshares.

Anja, my belief is that charity begins at home. We have thousands of our own who are homeless/ living on the streets, young, old and ailing, most through no fault of their own and we shouldn't judge how they ended up there either.

When these people are or have been interviewed, have you ever come across any of these hundreds of refugees in the same position ? Where are they being kept/housed ? I'd like you to find out. Are they receiving welfare payments ? If my " worst " is because I'm concerned for our own fellow human beings, some of who fought in wars ( ex-servicemen ) then I wouldn't like to hear of your " worst ".

If countries like ours didn't sell arms to other countries there would not be refugees, would there?

Excellent point, Absent. I am also reminded the UK took in the ships carrying Jewish children fleeing from the Nazi regime. I feel proud that we did.

On the other hand, as we see, those coming across now tend to be young males, not children at all. I think that could be part of the concern felt by some.

Sorry Annie but it’s more than that. At its most basic it brings to mind the parable of the Good Samaritan. Isn’t this exactly what Jesus was talking about over 2000 years ago? It’s not a new problem.

Well said Anniebach !

Unfair, people have different opinions, doesn’t mean either side is the worse side of human nature .

Very interesting thread this. Reveals the worst side of human nature and the best.

Good post Day6

I will not be responding again other than to say Ellan, I have no problem with opposition. I have had some interesting and thought provoking discussions on GN.

Your assertion that the entire populations of Iraq and Iran hate the UK, are utter nonsense.

Immigration is a complex area and it has been handled in a very poor way by those who should know better.

What annoys me about this whole discussion is the lack of criticism of our own dear government(s) who successively have done little, or nothing, to stem the tide of illegal migrants. This is nothing new, ask people who live in Kent near any channel port.

If Anne Frank's family hadn't been denied refugee status in the USA, she would probably still be alive – nine years older than I am.

The Trump like attitudes shown by many on this thread make me despair.

That is a desperate and very silly jibe.

People not in favour of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION are in my view, showing some common sense in the face of all embracing liberal stupidity - very evident on this thread.

People have compassion but they also have a right to ask why people with no papers are creeping into the UK , via the channel, in the dead of night. Is that not a fair response or does only the "hug an illegal immigrant no matter who he is or what he has done" fit the bill?

Do we offer the hand of friendship to all, with no expense spared, with no questions asked?

Imagine that scenario, worldwide. Global anarchy.

Does common sense ever prevail in the heads of the liberal elite who find condemnation of anything - even illegal immigration - unthinkable?

'Never condemn' is their byword, unless it's not in keeping with their all-embracing, liberal philosophy, and please do not attempt to scale their moral high ground. That is the liberal left sub-text. It is laughable. I think it is also anti-establishment and anarchic at heart - a bid to see the established order toppled.

Those who express understandable concern regarding ILLEGAL immigration are according to the self-righteous posters, "not like Jesus" and "Trump-like". It's pathetic and given the current climate of atrocities around the world, alarming that such dangerously liberal attitudes are held.

Corbyn sees terrorist Hamas as 'friends'. I suppose it's to be expected that his followers also hold out the hand of friendship to anyone entering the UK illegally.

I don't think anybody's asking you to "weep and wail" Gabriella. I suspect there's no chance of that anyway, judging by your contributions to this and other threads.

What I, and I suspect others, find unacceptable is the scathing generalisations you make about people whose lives and experiences you know nothing about.

Ask the politicians. I don't run the country (ies)

If I cannot do anything about it...what would worrying being sad, wailing or praying (if I was a believer) do?
This is the tip of the iceberg.
Poverty and dismal living conditions have been going on for thousands of years. Remember Biafra? One of too many areas in crises past and present, to mention.
I can't spend my life being upset and 'moved' by situations outside my control. That would be foolish and a waste of the life my parents gave me.

If we have enough 'yobs' here why would we want more?

This little girl has a question too, GabriellaG:

I should say that I have hesitated before joining in this discussion because for me it's personal. I have three young Afghan foster sons who have made a wonderful life for themselves in this country and have studied, worked long hours, paid taxes and are just about to buy a business here. According to the UN, more than 10,000 civilians were killed or injured in Afghanistan in 2017 and it is expected that this number will be exceeded in 2018. As a family living in Afghanistan wouldn't you urge your young people to flee to safety? I would.

I speak about Afghanistan, but other countries are equally volatile and dangerous and, having lost a close relative to war, I know I would do anything I could to get my own family to a safe haven.