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News & politics

So-called ‘migrant crisis’

(270 Posts)
winterwhite Tue 01-Jan-19 18:27:15

Hope haven’t missed a thread on the appalling public reaction to this humanitarian problem. In particular, as the papers point out today, these 200+ crossing the channel are about the roll of a small primary school, over two months. What crisis?
And then, they are people whose livlihoods have been destroyed in their own countries by destructive military action, in which our arms trade has played no small part. Who do we think we are to behave like this?
What evidence is there that these refugees intend to ‘live on benefits’, beyond a brief resettlement period? or that those coming ashore on the Kent coast are any threat to anyone? I have seen none.
These crossings are of course very dangerous but public opinion countenances many more dangerous activities. And if loss of life was a prime concern, why remove patrol boats from areas where the problem is far greater?
International movement of peoples in response to major economic and political upheaval is a massive problem. Not to be solved by this sort of populist anger.

NfkDumpling Fri 04-Jan-19 22:15:53

Thanks.

GabriellaG54 Fri 04-Jan-19 22:05:37

I travel 15 miles to a farm shop, not really local but I understand that some people look for excuses to not find alternatives. You can grow your own in tubs or in quite small plots and, if you sow seeds at intervals it enables you to always have a fresh supply. As mentioned, pre-packed fruit and veg have the country of origin printed on the front.
I can highly recommend M&S 'Centenary' strawberries which are grown in Kent and that strain was conceived/bred by a professor I know. Delicious.

petra Fri 04-Jan-19 22:03:13

NfkDumpling
That's what's called 'The European Directive'
It's been going on to my knowledge since 2002?
The first company I knew of were: Irish Ferries. But because of a big hoo ha, they stopped employing cheap east European labour.
Most of the Polish lorries you see on our roads are on poor wages. No road tax either angry but that's another story.

GabriellaG54 Fri 04-Jan-19 21:52:35

NfkDumpling
The Guardian ran an article in Autumn last year, naming a couple of agencies. Apparently workers earn around £100 per day £600 pw and possibly a bit more. I'll put the header of the article on here and you can Google it if you want. I can't do links on my mobile.

NfkDumpling Fri 04-Jan-19 21:39:37

But supermarkets do say where their produce comes from don’t they Oldbatty?

I understand that many farms employ their labour through foreign agencies. That way they don’t have to pay minimum wage. If they use an agent in Lithuania and that agent pays the workers then they pay above Lithuanian rates of pay but well below ours. Apparently. Perhaps someone knows how true this is.

oldbatty Fri 04-Jan-19 21:04:10

I know its a struggle for some of you to comprehend but we don't all have farm shops on our doorsteps, or a farm selling greens or fish caught in the Atlantic.

GabriellaG54 Fri 04-Jan-19 20:51:27

The fruit farm I know and have been to, which is the exclusive supplier of strawberries to M&S, is in Kent.

petra Fri 04-Jan-19 20:47:15

NfkDumpling
accommodation
This word can only be used in the broadest possible sense.
More like surviving in a hovel. Many of them bunk down in the tunnels.
I once attempted to take a photo of the hideous waste. These are huge wheely bins where all the misshapen food is dumped, but a guard didn't take kindly to that wink

EllanVannin Fri 04-Jan-19 20:43:48

There IS exploitation in this country------it's rife ! Nobody has been prosecuted to my knowledge.

Not all fruit and veg pickers have it easy in this country, some conditions are abominable. There was a programme about Bulgarian and Romanians who were being employed in Herefordshire who were lucky to receive £2.50 an hour after " stoppages ?" and all were living cramped up in caravans.
These foodstuffs ended up on the shelves at Tesco's and Sainsbury's. Scandalous.

GabriellaG54 Fri 04-Jan-19 20:39:23

Yes, it would might be easier to buy it all in one go in a supermarket but then I'd have no grounds for wailing at the conditions migrant workers have to contend with most of the time.
I've Googled the place posters have mentioned and seen the CH4 excerpt and I agree, it's awful. Tomorrow, I'm going to email the UK companies who buy from that place in Spain and ask what they intend doing about it and how often they send inspectors to check.
sad Not good.

Jalima1108 Fri 04-Jan-19 20:33:04

You do
I may
But, unfortunately, most people won't.
People power is great if it works

The EU needs to act to stop this.

GabriellaG54 Fri 04-Jan-19 20:29:49

I buy all my veg and fruit from a farm shop and preserves that are made here by local fruit growers. Cheese and cream from a farm 15 miles away, with it's own dairy herd and dairy. British milk, Bread from a bakery or bake my own with local flour. Fish trawled from the Atlantic and herbs and greens grown by me or from nearby farms. Much cheaper and no weight on my conscience.

Jalima1108 Fri 04-Jan-19 20:25:54

The solution lies with all of us, however
The thing is that the solution was surely in EU legislation? It cannot be legal to employ workers under such conditions?

If it is found to happen in the UK, then it would result in prosecution.

Jalima1108 Fri 04-Jan-19 20:24:21

I won't say any but I have avoided Spanish tomatoes, cucumbers etc, out of season.
Plus other foods where I have doubts.

Jalima1108 Fri 04-Jan-19 20:23:23

Refuse to buy any food from abroad
Well, I do.
But most people won't.

GabriellaG54 Fri 04-Jan-19 20:19:35

There's an easy answer. Refuse to buy any food from abroad...if you're truly horrified by what you read and what you see.
The country of origin is on all pre-packed fruit and veg. If it isn't grown here, don't buy it. There are plenty of other options.
If you choose to buy it anyway, you are simply enabling the grower to continue their practices.
The solution lies with all of us, however, I have no doubt that most of the people who made an outcry over palm-oil, are still buying stuff which contains it, despite their resolution not to. There is no excuse. It's easy to talk about it but putting it into practice is another matter altogether. Otherwise, it's hypocrisy.

Jalima1108 Fri 04-Jan-19 20:02:54

We imagine lovely farms with nice greenhouses growing tomatoes, cucumbers, strawberries etc for the EU market, happy EU workers, paid a decent wage, living in decent accommodation, but the reality is sickening.

NfkDumpling Fri 04-Jan-19 19:58:18

Do you see the accommodation?

petra Fri 04-Jan-19 19:52:14

NfkDumpling
That's the place that Jalima & I have been talking about for months. The same place that we have been driving through (the poly tunnels) since 2010. We take a short cut in the motohome to get to a campsite.
We will be driving through it again in March. The pictures are bad enough but to see it for real is horrendous.

Jalima1108 Fri 04-Jan-19 19:41:38

but an indication of how spoilt we’ve become
That exactly the conversation I had with an old lady in M&S Food the other day. (Well, I'm an old woman, but she was older than me.)
I wanted something quick for dinner as we'd had a long day.

She and I were eyeing up the Meal Deal but there wasn't much left so we both happened upon the GastroPub selection. She sighed and ummed and ahhed and I was dithering - so I said to her 'Spoilt, aren't we!' and she agreed wholeheartedly.

I'm betting that some ingredients came from all over the world - and we could have gone and bought salads in January if we wished.

NfkDumpling Fri 04-Jan-19 19:34:36

I saw that programme too Jalima. And we’ve stopped buying salads out of season!

Look for El Ejido on Google Earth - it’s a shock! ( A bit off topic, but an indication of how spoilt we’ve become.)

Jalima1108 Fri 04-Jan-19 19:33:08

The Vikings just invaded, no questions asked.

oldbatty Fri 04-Jan-19 19:28:03

I wonder how boatloads of Norwegians or Icelanders would be received?

Jalima1108 Fri 04-Jan-19 19:25:14

I think most migrant farm workers are well looked after as regards accommodation, especially here in the UK (basic but fine), Gabriella, but the conditions for those in Spain were horrific.

GabriellaG54 Fri 04-Jan-19 19:15:44

Fairly recent news suggests that migrant workers on uk farms picking fruit, average earnings just top £600 for a 6 day week.
Romanian economy growing at more than 6%, faster than the UK.
Migrant workers go to Spain to pick garlic then move to Romania to pick cherries and some other EU countries to pick strawberries.
I know an employer who grows strawberries exclusively for M&S and workers live in specially kitted out accommodation with meals and proper facilities. They come back year after year, some have been coming to the same farm for 8 years. They use the money earned to build houses back home. If they could earn more at home in Romania or Bulgaria, they wouldn't come here.