Who will come crawling out of the woodwork?

It was mentioned on another forum that Johnson only came out in favour of leave when Cameron said he wouldn't stand again and he realised the leadership was up for grabs. Not sure if this is correct but it makes sense if it is.

Lily65 is getting her quotes from Boris Johnson. Rubbish, maybe, but spectacularly so when coming from the mouth of a person who'd like to be PM.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/jan/23/london.race

POGS

I have a vague recollection of the quote about Queen and Commonwealth being printed in the press many years ago, long before the pc party started filtering our speech.

Lily65 Fri 18-Jan-19 21:32:44

"It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies."
----
For heavens sake where are getting this rubbish from?

Is this another lie you are spreading or do you believe this to be true?

Nonnie
When is your next book coming out?

"It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies."

OK sorry Boris, you said women wearing the burqa looked like post boxes and bank robbers.

The arrogance of the man.

True and they have been for 2 years and counting and some posters still keep the lies coming.

From both sides of the argument!

I will get over it when posters stop blatantly using Gransnet to willingly and knowingly post lies/misinformation thinking it acceptable

I'd keep off the Brexit threads if I were you, then POGS. They're rife with, if not downright lies, then at least plenty of misinformation

Now that is scaremongering rubbish ; all but twelve tiny island countries in the whole wide world are not members of the WTO.

Rather a confusing sentence, Day6 but I assume that you meant to say that all but twelve tiny island countries are members of the WTO.

Yes, most countries are members of the WTO (as is the EU) but, as you have been repeatedly told, they do not trade under WTO regulations if they can possibly avoid it. They enter into trade agreements with other countries or trading blocs in order to be free of WTO regs.

I believe you think that the UK trades with all other countries apart from the EU under WTO. Well, it doesn't. It trades with 50 countries with which it has EU negotiated trade deals; deals which give them better than WTO terms. It also trades with the Least Developed Countries, which have Everything But Arms agreements with the EU. EBA means that the LDCs trade tariff free with the EU in everything but arms.

Here is information on EU trade agreements:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

^ It also doesn't involve a 39 BILLION membership fee which bails out other smaller eastern European countries and those larger countries who deal in the very unstable Euro. We would be liable for the economies of other countries failing and so bailing out the Euro if we remain.^

You should know exactly what the £39 billion is for; it is to meet commitments made in the last budget round and ongoing commitments such as paying MEP's pensions. The people you follow might think that it's totally unnecessary but if the UK reneges on this, which has already been agreed, how do you think they're going to make new trade agreements when looking totally untrustworthy?

Of course, crashing out and going WTO is not only inviting economic disaster but it also means a hard border in Ireland and a huge risk of a resumption of The Troubles.

EU Bailouts? See Fullfact:

fullfact.org/europe/will-uk-pay-future-eurozone-bailouts/

Lilly 65

I will get over it when posters stop blatantly using Gransnet to willingly and knowingly post lies/misinformation thinking it acceptable .

He is NOT my man by the way so another load of what on your part?

Boris Johnson has been sacked twice for lying - once by the Times when he was a journalist reporting on Europe and was found to be making up stories that were totally untrue and once when he was a minister under John Major for the same reason.

He is a charlaton who has no principles or beliefs. He could not decide which way to jump on the question of the EU referendum so wrote two speeches, one supporting Leave and one for Remain.

I don't know whether he tossed a coin or just cynically decided that he could advance his political career by becoming a prominent Leave spokesman, and although he did not expect Leave to win, he thought it would gain him support amongst Tory Party members.

oh POGS get over it, your man Boris said insulting things about Muslims and he tells lies all the time, oh and he is a philanderer. So tell me about lies please.

Only one country in the world trades solely under WTO rules ( a body we have to sign up to and pay money to) that is Mauritania, a poverty stricken state, with a tiny GDP. Every other WTO member is part of a trading bloc.
That tells you something.

Boris Johnson has yet again been caught out lying- he denies stirring Turkey fears in Brexit campaign

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/18/boris-johnson-falsely-denies-issuing-turkey-warning-in-brexit-campaign

Lily65 Fri 18-Jan-19 18:09:21

irony. I know dear old Bozza didn't really say that but oh boy do we Brits love a bit of alliteration with our bacon butties and our brews----

Then you knowingly told a lie, end of.

I don't follow the reasoning behind the need to do that but again we shall have to beg to differ.

Varian

" but do not conform to the typical conservative product of that type of education."
----

They are not conforming to the ' typical conservative product of that type of education' because they are like thousands of others merely following a different path! They are no different, not a special breed because they went on to have left leaning political / views!

I simply do not follow how 2 people who are from a wealthy background, went to public school, went to Oxford/Cambridge but then went in different direction politically can be viewed differently.

To some those who went to the left of politics are saints whilst those who went to the right are the devil's spawn but the fact remains that is not because of any difference in their background. Class Warfare is indeed a by-product of that thought if it used as some sort of tool to try and denograde only those who went to the right politically.

We will have to beg to differ I suppose.

Oops! * their chosen sectors.

Two of my sons were privately educated but declined to step into 3-4 years of being in the wilderness and the oft reported debauchery which sometimes sit alongside a university offer. Instead, they took their double figure A * GCSEs and 5 and 4A * levels and found jobs in tgeir6chosen sectors. When their contempories were filling in job applications and living back with mum and dad, my lads had mortgages and their feet well under the career table.
Not all privately educated persons are toffs.

POGS

eazybee's 'points are in the extract I posted. About no borders, the euro etc. etc. They are all held to be the ultimate consequences of the Lisbon Treaty. I am curious to know what, in the treaty, backs up these predictions.

irony. I know dear old Bozza didn't really say that but oh boy do we Brits love a bit of alliteration with our bacon butties and our brews.

POGS my quote was from the New York Times (a liberal newspaper in the USA), in turn referencing The Economist, (a conservative UK political magazine).

I am not interested in "class war" or the "politics of envy" (accusations frequently directed by the right wing press against anyone to the left of Attilla the Hun).

I am perfectly aware that there are many examples of folk like Tony Benn (and indeed Nick Clegg) who went to very expensive private schools and top universities but do not conform to the typical conservative product of that type of education.

However it is impossible to deny the evidence of the preponderance of men (nearly always men) from this type of background who use the connexions they made at school or university to advance in business and politics, especially within the Tory Party.

Maizie d

Can I politely ask what points eazybee has raised do you have particular problems with, are challenging?

Lily65 Fri 18-Jan-19 14:45:18.

' mcem, my point exactly. That is the level of research that determined how some people voted"
-----

Come again.

It was you who posted the ridiculous lie about Boris Johnson and the' Burka Ban' was it not?

Am I missing something.?

If it is not your level of research that is to be questioned, who's is it?

Yesterday eazybee had this to say:

Take a look at the terms of the Lisbon Treaty,

So I did. It's very long and complex document but I found this analysis of it:

www.robert-schuman.eu/en/dossiers-pedagogiques/traite-lisbonne/10fiches.pdf

It was interesting reading

That treaty commits every EU member state ( they are not considered worthy to be called countries, which must surely tell you everything about the EU's intentions)

They are called states because not every member state consists of just one country. For a start, Britain comprises four countries. Please don't confuse accurate use of language with disdain.

...to total integration in the future. This includes a combined army, no borders, the euro, all decisions about everything to be made in Brussels with no need for national parliaments. The UK will be split into regions with Scotland joining some Scandinavian areas and the south joining France, continual expansion of members of their club...and so on.

I assume, from these conclusions that eazybee has made a thorough study of the treaty and I'd be interested to know, with citations, which sections confirm each of their claims.