Warwick University- would you want any dgc of yours to go there?

Purely theoretical, I wanted to experiment with the juxtaposition of free speech (for debating purposes) and this sorry situation regarding the threats. Supposing a uni's debating society had a debate over whether to make rape legal, and one of the students, just to "play along" agreed to play the part of the Yes side, and acted it so well that several of the female students were no longer sure if he was just playing along with the experiment or really meant what he said. For example, to make it authentic he may have said offensive things. What should the uni do then in the situation that the female students no longer felt safe at the uni? Should the uni have foreseen problems and banned the experimental debate, or should they protect the right to experiment and speak freely in the interests of the intellectual exercise and experience?

The second more disturbing and worrying part of the whole sorry saga of today's student life on campus is their need to feel and and desire to feel offended by anything or everything however obscure, there is no such thing as a safe place, free speech is about accepting everyone's right to offend.

I agree katyf and find the whole issue of University students giving a platform only to speakers who share their (mostly left wing) views a very dangerous road to go down. It's worrying, I agree.

However, that is for a different thread.

Whether the vile remarks were made in private or not, the fact remains that they became read by others, including the 'targets' of their repugnant ideas. Now the whole matter is out in the open and I'd like to think that the victim's right to study in peace, free from threat should be the only consideration.

Do Universities have a 'terms and conditions' clause for student behaviour? No idea, but threatening others, whether in word or deed, ought to be a common sense no-no, with consequences.

We have visited our DGD a few times at Warwick university and were surprised that it's not in Warwick.

Jalima - Ooops.

www.coventry.ac.uk/the-university/about-coventry-university/governance/vice-chancellors-office/

That link you gave is about the other University in Coventry. I am sure they don't want to be associated with Warwick's nasty problem. They are both in Coventry though as I have been to the wonderful Art's Centre at Warwick Uni, and it's not in Warwick! Radio Four told me about the event at Warwick Art's Centre and I discovered a Coventry address! Both in Warwickshire.

when I hear them publicly apologise and say they will transfer elsewhere I might, just might, think there is a glimmer of hope for them but their intention to return says all you need to know about them.

Indeed.
One can only hope that the outrage this incident has created will make them think twice.

The problem would not have occurred if University staff had shown a bit of common sense in telling them they were not welcome back and needed to find another place to study, for their own sakes, for the well being of the girls who were their targets and for the reputation of the University.

I believe two appealed their 'punishments' and that is why they'll return early. That in itself tells me they are lacking in conscience and regret for their actions. Most guilty men would have volunteered to end their time at Warwick I imagine, (or would they?) if they'd been outed as responsible for such repulsive messages.

There is a very wide spectrum between " fairly supportive and understanding families" and "living on the streets because your parents have chucked you out."

M0nica you don't get to uni if you are a 17 year old living in on the streets because your parents have chucked you out.

I agree Day6 and the problem is What can we do? and Do we really know how bad the problem is? I think the answer to the second question is "No" and we are unlikely to find out until someone decides to put his fantasies into practice. When I was teaching I had a 7 year old who had inernet access in his bedroom. He was a very bright child and I have no doubt that before very long he would have found ways around any of the restrictions his parents tried to impose. Quite what the impact of the violence he might access might be I don't know. I certainly don't think it would do him any good.
Remember the Bulger case and the videos they had watched, we evidently haven't learned from that and it looks like we won't learn anything from this.

I would imagine these young men come from fairly supportive and understanding families

What is the evidence for this?

In my opinion anyone who publishes anti-Semitic sentiments or threatens a woman with rape should be reported to the police, whose job it is to find out whether there are grounds for instituting proceedings against them.

This should have been done by the Chancellor of the University if he or she was made aware of the situation.

Banning the men involved is a first step. In my opinion they should never be allowed back to the university, or admitted to any other.

If people with the intelligence to get into any place of higher education do not know that threatening to rape anyone is disgusting then they must be made aware that no decent person should behave in that way.

Frankly, if I were related to any of the women concerned, I would do my utmost to help her transfer to a University that regards men and women as equals.

Is it not illegal in the UK to threaten people with rape or grievous bodily harm? It is here in Denmark, as is publishing anti-Semitic opinions or any other form of discriminatory opinion concerning religion, race etc.

This is another example of social media facilitating people’s basest instincts. Like the man sent to prison, the students were probably inspired by violent online porn.

Good point Oldfossil

I think many young people, especially games players (as in X Box or Play Station gamers) have become desensitised from an early age.

Their games include killing in a multitude of ways, as though the adversary only exists for the pleasure they take in killing him off, in the most brutal of ways. They command whether a person lives or dies. I checked out some of these games when my sons were teenagers and refused to let them have them. They weren't happy, as they said 'all their friends had them'. The world has moved on since then and I can only imagine young minds are now occupied with much more explicit brutality in these games.

That women they know should be fair game or sport for their repulsive and barbaric ideas is disgusting.

I would also say that there are many vile things said on social media none of which I would expect to be repeated on GN.

I understand but there have always been on this site posters who are other than GPs and may be very impressionable. It isn't doing anyone any favours to repost such things, although it does seem to fulfill some need in you.

I know exactly what I am doing by repeating these words and there’s much worse. Have you considered what you are doing by suggesting that they could be re-educated and rehabilitated? Twitter is easily accessible as is GN so I’m not providing anything that isn’t already out there but I wanted to ensure that some of you really understood the utter vileness of what these ‘men’ were posting.

trisher
As much as I hate to read Maryelizas words, I feel that some poster really don't know how bad it was and should know.

I am delighted these ‘men’ have been outed What these ‘things’ think about in private is what they really wish to do Disrespect is never pretty and can verge on illegal They should not be allowed back to any Uni and if anything worse comes to light I hope they get charged

maryeliza54have you considered that by repeating the posts on a public forum you may in fact be spreading attitudes and encouraging such things? You have no idea who is reading this and the people on here are not always grandparents.

‘She deserves a punch in the clit’
‘She deserves hair straighteners on her flaps’

David Wilson is a professor of criminology. He was my daughter’s tutor as an undergraduate and advised her on her masters which she went on to do at another university.

KateF What those students posted was not their views on anything, it was their stated intention to commit acts of violence against named individuals. That makes it a threat.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question
What is the point of them going back to Warwick to get their degrees when there is little chance of them getting a good job.
My son in law employs people and next to their qualifications for the job social media is the next port of call to check them out.

And what if someone hadn't 'released secure private messages'? Who knows what these men would have done next had they not been caught?

katef there is absolutely no such thing as a private chat area on the internet and believing that shows a naivety that beggars belief.

Whilst I do not agree with the comments, those guys made!

Their comments were made in a private secure chat room, only available to the few members the group concerned, whether it was drunken banter within the group or raging testosterone stupidity, we will never know.

But some one within that group for whatever reason released secure private messages that they were sharing with each other, not of it was for public posting.

The second more disturbing and worrying part of the whole sorry saga of today's student life on campus is their need to feel and and desire to feel offended by anything or everything however obscure, there is no such thing as a safe place, free speech is about accepting everyone's right to offend.

It does not matter whether it be Germain Greer's views from her days as a Feminist darling with Female Eunuch to her latest views on the transgender communities, Scottish Greens MSP Ross Greer on Churchill's legacy, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencers view on Islam, Tommy Robinson or even Sheikh Ekrima Sabri views on destroying England.

When I was at University our professors were provocative and taught us to look at both sides of every argument palatable or unpalatable , we would analyse speeches by the likes of Enoch Powell/ or is torture justified/ should jury's be abolished, we would respectfully listen to speakers, challenging their views by robust questioning.

Afterwards we all would have a chance to meet the speakers and talk to them courteously as they were to us in return, never would it ever entered our heads to shout speakers down or refuse to allow them to speak, because their views differed to ours.

Me too petra . My sister works at the same uni as him and says he's a very nice man.