Last word on Brexit.

jura2
Nowhere in that article does it say that people believed the lies told about the NHS or Turkey joining the eu.
Do you think that nobody besides you reads these articles?

Pondering on the title- I really do wonder when the Last Word on Brexit will be? I think people will still be talking about this dreadful debâcle in 30, 50 - 100 years and more.

So Leavers don't want to be 'ruled by Brussels'.

But MEPs are elected, in each EU country, in properly run elections. Now many citizens choose not ot take part- but that is not the fault of the EU, is it? The European Commission is appointed by individual national Governments- to defend their own country's national interests.

And yet, they are happy to go to WTO and be ruled by bureaucrats in Geneva, and hand real power to the whims of outside unelected groups.

And never mind the House of Lords, right on our doorstep

It is repetitive- but I'll say it again 'you just could not make it up'.

In the meantime, Caroline Lucas has been travelling up and down the country to talk to Leavers in Communities left totally 'lost' in the post industrial area, and in the grip of Austerity and cuts by this Government. She has listened carefully to what they say, and it is clear they are suffering terribly- and that they did vote as a reaction to austerity and not being listened to. And that it had nothing to do with the EU per se. Also that they believed the lies re NHS, and re Turkey joining, etc.

whereas Remainers' just want to stick with what we had in past - trade with EU.

Well, newnanny when I go to buy something it usually seems to have been made in China and I don't remember China joining the EU.

Do you really, seriously believe that we only trade with the EU?

dont think so NEWNANNY ,the thing is some of us are old enough to remember the grim days before the UK was a member of EU...and grim it was.The sick man of europe they called us .With Japan and the USA making trade deals with Europe how do you imagine we'll get better deals? We dont have the bargaining power of the 27 other members so of course we wont and we can look forward to increased tarrifs on most of our imports .Thats not good news for those at the bottom of the wage scale .Of course it doesn't affect the many millionaires in the tory government and they want out to avoid the new EU rules about tax havens etc .But you keep thinking it will all be OK .

How odd. I voted Brexit and think Brexit voters are the forward looking ones looking to new opportunities and striking up new trade deals with new countries whereas Remainers' just want to stick with what we had in past - trade with EU.

GReat post Cindersdad.

And Maizie, totally agree.

So back to the question, JC and a soft 'cake and eat it à la unicorn' - yes, or no?

There will never be a last word on Brexit the sad thing is that was such a vote in the first place. The total electorate in June 2016 was about 44 million of whom 15 million voted REMAIN, 17 million LEAVE and about 12 MILLION did not bother to vote. Of the 44 million roughly 2 millions have passed away and around the same number of younger voters are now eligible. The Brexit promised in 2016 cannot be delivered and the situation is now better understood. Logic says that the People should have another say. The refusal to allow another vote when most of us were not totally sure of the implications of the original vote smacks of saying "you may have voted to LEAVE after being lied to but you now have to live with it even though we have no idea how much harm will be done". In the cold light of day there is no cooling off period and no chance to think again. A lot of damage has already been done and it seems that it is likely to get worse.

Most of us will vote the same way if we have another chance but 2 million younger voters are owed a say in their future. Some the 12 million non voters may now realise that it does matter and this time vote. The Government does not care that there is a call in the country for another say just putting party above country.

She's trying to keep the tory party together, jura. Country comes trailing far behind in second place. She's just ensured that the whole country is deeply divided instead.

I thank the lord every day that I have never voted tory.

Is there anyone here who still believes JC could and will be able to re-negotiate a 'soft Brexit' - cake and eat it with unicorns?

This attitude will throw us into No Deal - and I for one, will blame him more than I will Mrs May. At least she tried, no-one could take her hard work and tenacity away from her.

Nonnie she could not be confident as she doesn’t know what Labour is thinking/standing for as regards Brexit, in fact each MP has a different viewpoint.

I didn't jura but I admire anyone who is sorry, that is good to hear. Shame the lot of them don't come out and apologise and do something about it. I would vote for anyone who did.

Did you hear Baroness Farsi- she totally admitted Calling for the Referendum was a really stupid 'game' to try and appease parts of the Tory Party.

She looked really down too and said 'saying sorry would just not be enough'.

I heard her too - I could hardly believe it was her, she sounded so down-beat.

Just heard Shami Chakrabarti on World at One sounding totally unconvinced about what she was saying. Never heard her sound like that before. She was saying that we would 'discuss' trade with the EU once we had left with a deal which would mean we had a say. Of course it wouldn't. One of the things suggested was that if the EU allowed chlorinated chicken we would have to have it too.

I'll be OK, then. I can't stand coffee

Ginny think I will stockpile coffee if nothing else.

Whilst we can still get coffee Nonnie! [café]

Of course it has already 'gone pear shaped' the £ has dropped 20% and businesses have no idea whether what they import or sell will be affected by tariffs! It takes 6 weeks for some goods to arrive or be delivered so what are they supposed to do? The PMI shows that people are afraid to order because of the unknown. Wake up and smell the coffee MPs

Ah! The blame game.
None of us knows how society will be in 20 or 50 years time,
Either in or out of the EU.

How old will you be lemon, in 20 or 50 years time? Your children? Your grandchilren?

IF it will be worth it in 20 or 50 years how do you think the people struggling until then will view the Leave voters ...and do you care even a wee bit about the loss of jobs and higher prices they will without doubt face for a long time to come .

Plenty has gone pear shaped already- for sure.

And almost all economists are predicting the collapse of the economy and farming sector.

So where you get your 'it will be worth it' is beyond me. How long will it take, do you think. Will you and I see it?

Evidence would be nice to have.

Nothing has gone pear shaped as yet.....we are still in the EU!
It would be silly to think that anything will improve just at first in any case, it will take time but will be worth it.

And it's all going so well isn't it?

A long time ago I posted that after we've exited the EU and life is as good as one or two people above seem to believe it will be in the UK, I vowed that I would come on GN and admit I got it wrong voting remain and that you were right all along and life IS better out of the EU.

The promise still stands. When we'll see the evidence I have no idea, but it's all gone a bit pear shaped since has it not?