Last word on Brexit.

So, been teaching this morning and didn't see the news. Switzerland and UK have ratified and signed the agreement which will pretty much reciprocate the agreements previously had, as UK part of EU, and CH part of EEA.

What a relief for us personally, I must say. However, I imagine the UDC/SDP (far right) will do everything it its power to trash that- but so far so good.

And I do enjoy life, right now, very much- despite being caught up in this double whammy of insecurity - don't worry. It would take a lot more to bring me down- thank goodness.

Oh I don't expect any sympathy- at all.

Jura you have enjoyed your life until the last few years, benefitting from the best of living in various european countries as well as non-eu Switzerland.
Which we have done too, having lived in France for 17 years, when things were relatively easy.
But now it's different everywhere in Europe, not just because of Brexit. The wind of change etc.
It's tough, everyone is worried and suffering,apart from the really rich. You're not the only one, so don't expect a lot of sympathy.

'I am saying that any country that attaches itself to the EU regulations in whatever direction is not and will never have total Sovereignty .'

we live in a global world- issues with security, finance, research, environment, manufacturing processes, food production, and so much more - need cooperation. If you belong to a Club, and sign up to the Rules- you have to abide with them. And NO, you can't pick and choose- because that would give you massive advantage over the other club members. All contracts are based on accepting the rules. Simple.

So yes, the Swiss can have total Sovereignty and Independence- and as a tiny country bang in the middle of Europe, will have massive difficulties. Same for the UK, stuck up there on their Island. Amazing it took Raab months to find that out.

But, pray tell. How can a country trading solely on WTO rules, made by bureaucrats, UNELECTED, in Geneva- can have their Sovereignty. How can any country have 100% such when linked to research, nuclear, energy, petrol, produce, etc, then want to sell and buy? It was fine in Ye Olde Days- they have gone. And how having to beg for Trading Deals from Trump and others- in exchange for selling our NHS, our working rights, our animal welfare, and produce/product safety, and 1000s of visas - give us 100 Sovereignty?

Jura

You do post regularly using either your British or Swiss nationality according to the discussion/debate hence my comment.

Yes obviously as a Swiss National you understand only too well how the Swiss system works but you also know only too well democratic Referendums held in Switzerland will not be in the hands of the people if the EU say ' NON '. ' No Cherry Picking '.

I am saying that any country that attaches itself to the EU regulations in whatever direction is not and will never have total Sovereignty .

hi maizie and jura you are totally adorable people with divine attributes,

I'm beginning to warm to you, too andy. I like a person with a GSOH...

POGS - I am fully aware of the way Switzerland is run, thanks. And I am British btw- the fact I have dual natioanlity makes no difference to that.

The two political systems are totally different, CH and UK. One could argue that the UK is not Democratic- in as much as there is no PR and that a massive number of votes are discarded because of the FPP system. And because of the Lords, which is a totally unelected Chamber. The UK has a Parliamentary Democracy where MPs are elected to represent us and to make informed decisions for us. And where Referendums are very rare, and always, by our Laws, advisory.

Switzerland is a true direct Democracy- and it has its +s and -s too. People are asked to vote all the time- and many people never bother. I was supposed to vote this morning, and I didn't- because I really did not understand the full implications- despite reading about it for some days.

The EEA has NO say at all in Swiss elections or Referendums or Intitiatives. Apart of course from THE one re the bilateral/reciprocal agreements with EEA. Switzerland signed up to the EEA, and agreed to the conditions, like Free Movement of People. A Referendum pushed by the extreme right in rural areas, in Feb. 2014- passed with a tiny majority (same as Brexit 48/52) - asking for restrictions to FOP.

And the EEA, quite rightly and totally within their right, said 'you choose' either you do, or you don't. Fair enough.

In the meantime, it became clear that the cost to leaving the EEA would be massive, in 100s of ways- and the Government has so far tried to by-pass the decision. It also has agreed conditions with the UK post Brexit- but thise has not yet been signed because the same extreme right is stirring the same rubbish. The UDC/SVP being the ones who published those appalling racist posters during the campaign and put the most dreadful racist materials in our letter boxes that made me ashamed and sick.

We as dual citizens, are therefore going through a double whammy of uncertainty and stress- not knowing if we will have health care, if our pensions will be frozen (which have lost 50%+ in 9 years due to £ exchange rates. OH acquired CH citizenships about 5 years ago, and I got British in 72 or 73. So we are safe from the point of view of permits, etc. The rest is all up in the air.

So please, I am fully aware of what is what, here or in the UK. The fact that my concerns, or opinions, are of less value, on a repeated basis because I happen to be born and bred to the age of 19 in another country is just totally out of order.
I have lived, studied, worked, all my adult life in the UK- and have no income whatsoever from CH- I am not entitled to a Swiss pension as I have never contributed here- and fair enough. But British we are for sure, even though OH was born in Cape Town and only arrived in the UK in 1948. Thanks.

hi maizie and jura you are totally adorable people with divine attributes, always a pleasure to see your fabulous posts.

hugs dearies.

no deal brexit, i am so excited xx

jura

Can I remind you that when you choose to post as a Swiss National we have had posts between us that point out the people of Switzerland eligible to vote in elections / referendums, of which they hold many, are not in control of their vote result because of the European Union saying ' NO ', ' No Cherry Picking '.

Switzerland is also not an EU Member but it does have bilateral agreements and is therefore to a degree 'controlled ' by the EU .

Remind me please, are the WTO bureaucrats in Geneva elected by us to make the decisions - just like our MEPs?

And a lot of it is things that Britain initiated anyway

twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/884474494512975872

Those were/will be all incorporated into British legislation
There are currently about 12,000 EU regulations in operation in the UK. The government plans to copy over the vast majority of them word-for-word into UK law on 29 March, the day the UK leaves the European Union for good.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45912824

Most of it is legislation that the the British legislature would have enacted anyway, but found it easier just to incorporate the EU legislation.

Suzied your MiL is not alone in believing the lie on the bus. Did you see the interview with the Dr who voted leave because he believed the NHS would get the extra funding? His wife has divorced him as she voted remain. He was saying his vote cost him his marriage.

The lies on the bus go round and round, round and round, ...

Still waiting for those 'petty EU rules' too ...

What's the problem with posting the link, then, Petra. Bloodymindedness?

Urmstongran Ha ha, good comment!

Ps. Next time perhaps do a jigsaw ?

I wonder how you’re feeling mrsmopp about your light hearted thread?
This’ll teach you to tread carefully around the ‘B’ word!
???

Who's being mystic?
It's not rocket science. I just searched Caroline Lucas touring the country. Simple.

There are lots of articles in the Guardian, petra. I don't quite understand why you have to be so mystic about it. How about a link?

Don't know where the 'j' came from.

The article is in the Guardian. J

Nowhere in that article does it say that ...

What article, petra? There are none on this thread.

My MiL believes the NHS will have £ms more now , she can't understand why they haven't got it already. So some people did ( and still do) believe the lies.