Is this really the best answer to poor language development at 4 yrs old?

annie I am trying to say it has always been there! Do you read and think about posts? It never stopped or started! I taught in inner London in the 70s..it existed then, I was at school in sth London in 50s and there were lousy kids, kids with ringworm who struggled to learn. My mum left school at 14 and many of her contemporaries could not read or write well.

We pretend everything was perfect in the past..it never has been. We did all live in a less well informed society so we did not know as much about others, lives as we do now with the type of media we have. We are now all experts despite not having experience because we read something somewhere.

It is a different world today so needs different solutions.

There has always been poor parenting and parents and adults who never really listened to their children. In all the historic child sex abuse scandals both in and outside of families that have come to light in recent years, one theme comes up regularly is that the chid told her mum ( or other adult) and they didn’t believe them and really listen to them. From my childhood I still recall multiple examples of poor parenting that I observed and experienced - don’t give me such rubbish about parenting getting worse - tbere aremany ways of being a poor parent and they don’t all involve use of mobile phones. What I do know is that Sure Start/Children’s Centres were a wonderful idea that this government has decimated.

A lot of children don't actually spend much time with their parents and as one of a mass of children, say at nursery, it can't be as easy to pick up speech. An iPad is often more normal to a small child than a book and a lot of people, perhaps not surprisingly, just google if they want to know something. People also text and email instead of phoning and speaking - soon we won't need speech! Also remember adults don't really feel encouraged to talk to small children when they are out and about anymore, in fact children are taught at school not to talk to strangers.

Goodness and there was I thinking that in the good old days children played out with other children from dawn to dusk because everything was so safe and lovely then and now you’re telling me that’s not true that they spent their time talking to their parents

I said there has always been poverty, sadly there always will be . I too remember a family of children wearing wellies in the summer, the father had a drink problem the mother an addiction to bingo. There has always been such parents but we cannot deny there is not an increase and it didn’t all happen in the last 11 years

Well my dgc haven’t been told at school not to talk to strangers and if they had there would have been complaints. Children are at greatest danger from people they know - you could google that and find out.

We have no idea of the relative amounts of poor parenting because we didn’t used to acknowledge or recognise it in the past - just like child abuse - physical, sexual and emotional. So yes I deny there’s been an increase because we don’t know

Sure Start, oh yes brought in by that awful Blair government

"We pretend everything was perfect in the past..it never has been. "
That's true as well PECS. We had an excellent Speech and Language unit at our clinic around the late 70s to early 90s. Then it was closed down. Funding cuts.
In some ways the reasons for language delay were different then. eg often when I asked a parent to help their child read at home they would shamefacedly admit that they couldn't read. Missed out on school themselves for various reasons.
One of which classes of 50 or so.

I was in a class of 50 - the ones with what we now recognise as SEN sat at the back and did raffia work or crayoned

It would have been a good thing if the government had not abandoned Sure Start or removed finding from LAs so the other wonderful services such as children's centres went down the pan.

It would also be a good thing if mums/dads could either stay at home for the first two years or have access to good childcare. There seems to be a whole army of grandparents providing childcare. I am not saying they are not doing a good job but I don't feel it should be their responsibility.

I do not disagree that children arrive at school with poorly developed language skills.
I saw the excellent Speech and Language service in my local authority slowly disappear and kids in my school lose out as a result.
Originally the service had S &L therapists plus S&L teachers. First the therapists went and set up private practice because pay and conditions in LA could not keep up with private practice.
Then the LA funding was reduced so external services were cut including the specialist peripatetic S& L teachers.
Then the government spent mega bucks on projects called Every Child a Talker (ECAT) to help pre-schools and day care to train their staff to support children with language delay. A large number of the younger people who are employed in day nurseries are lovely caring people but many have gone into that role because they did not have the academic skills to train at a higher level..so what they did was fairly basic stuff.
Specialist paediatric nurses & HV worked in Sure Start /Family Centres with specialist EY teachers. The funding for higher qualified staff was cut. Now the centres are disappearing altogether .

So now we are relying on the people who sell a particular brand of shoe to fill the gap. Super!

I've just read through this discussion and want to say I fully support every post by PECS.
In my l.a. and all the areas in which I worked preventive and family support services have been decimated by the government's austerity approach. We had excellent Sure Start and other family centres - all closed.
The criticism of child care in nurseries is often made on gransnet, it's inaccurate. Many children whose speech is delayed make progress when they start nursery.
WE need to remember that when we were children, many parents who no live in the community would have been placed into long stay hospitals because of learning or other difficulties. Family Centres did brilliant work in supporting those families.
We have more mental health problems, particularly those associated with substance/alcohol misuse. The children in those families need state support - Family Centres, health visitors etc etc.
It's easy to point the finger at 'young mothers' today, blame their mobile phones or iPads for child neglect. It's wrong though.

Iam I agree with you on family services but no government can be blamed for the increase in alcohol and substance abuse. There are young people sleeping on the streets caused by family breakdowns, more one parent families no responsibility taken by the fathers. Have we gone from one extreme to the other.

Thanks Iam for adding all those other perspectives too.
Annie why do you think there is an increase in substance abuse/ family breakdown? You have suggested you feel it is not the fault of government decisions. What do you think is the cause?

PECS not one reason, if only there was

"Annie" So can government policies help or hinder such things?

This is a reflection of the society we live in. There has always been poor parenting and alcohol abuse.

Things are getting worse clearly. Television was blamed in the past, mobiles and tablets now and doubtless there is some substance in these accusations. It is also true that excellent schemes like Sure Start and Children’s Cenres have been scrapped by this government in the name of austerity.

These children then enter the education system which is under pressure from cuts and government interference and they often fail.

Such children are the least likely to get employment when they leave school with all that entails; a sense of failure, no aspirations, living on benefits, or turning to crime or alcohol.

In other words interventions in place in 2010 have been scrapped and systems which should have eased these children in their passage through school have been undercut. Annie is correct in one way, we haven’t yet seen the full extent of the damage done. That will emerge when those children denied very early interventions hit the streets.

Re the OP. Why not? If anybody can model good speech and questions to parents and children then I ask again...why not?

The parents of 4 year olds were not born 11 years ago, I do wonder if we have become state dependent. Yes the cut backs by this government is causing problems but we now blame the government for everything so shifting responsibility from ourselves

I agree with Iam64's description of this initiative as "cheapskate".

Of course, I think it is desirable that anyone interacting with children (or adults) in the course of their business should communicate clearly and chat to them in a natural way. If there is poor interaction with children from parents and other adults, that is something that requires a bit more than Clarke's assistants being primed to fill the gap.

I disagree with you Anniebach. The Labour government introduced the Sure Start scheme to help children who were at risk of starting school without the requisite communication and practical skills.

I have said the Blair Government introduced Sure Start

Re the OP. Why not? If anybody can model good speech and questions to parents and children then I ask again...why not?

Exactly, Anja.

Not all poor parenting, sadly some children suffer from speech delay.

There has always and will always be 'poor parenting'
The Victorians believed
'All children should be seen and not heard'.

Some mothers suffer post-natal depression and will often be struggling with toddler and a baby.

Some of todays parents do spend more time watching screens than conversing with their children, but in years gone by children were often left to fend for themselves, looked after by older siblings whilst parents were working, in the pub or at bingo etc.

Children now from 3 yrs get free 15 hours nursery placements.
Certain parents are allowed nursery provision at 2yrs old
There is free 30 hours provision if both parents working.

So plenty of help there for a child to learn the art of conversation.

When I take my grandchildren to any local shop or supermarket the person behind the till will often talk to the children.
When I have been in Clarks shoe shop with my grandchildren the staff not only talk to the child (bit difficult not to as the require them to put foot on gauge walk up and down and ask if shoes feel comfortable etc)
They also ask the child to write how old they are on the shop tablet in a colour of their choice.

Even if a child is not talkng in complete sentences by 4 or 5 they soon catch up and those that don't should be referred to a speech therapist.
Referals can also be made by the nursery.

I think this would be an interesting piece of in-service training for people who work in the shoe shops. I am not sure that it deserves the publicity and press attention it has received. It is hardly a national strategy is it?