Younger people’s views beyond March 2019.

It would just be a way of fudging the original vote to allow 16 year old to vote. We are a democracy x we vote here at 18 x Get over it

grannygranby
How many married 16yr olds with a child or children, rely on state or parents to provide them with a home and money...or are the ones you know self-sufficient and holding down jobs which pay all their bills and housing costs?
Children far younger than 16 are biologically capable of having children themselves but it doesn't mean they are capable of making a meaningful contribution to society or indeed voting.

My 10 year old DGC are good at debating.
Should they be allowed to vote?

It is their future at stake.

Retired65 evidence please because if all that is true we are better out. Young people would not consider anyone only themselves in a referendum. But they are not the only ones affected by the outcome.

Annie29
Should we then allow 16 yr olds to vote and ban 70+ yr olds?

I cannot see how having a second referendum would be undemocratic

Should we have the best of three?

I used to work for Tony Benn in his den in Holland Park. One day he asked me for whom I voted. I replied "Conservative". "Why?" he asked. "because my father does" I told him. I was so apolitical that I didn't even know he was a Labour man at the time!!

Many immigrants don't even speak English and wouldn't be able to make an informed opinion as they wouldn't be able to read or understand the news, nor would they have an understanding of past politics which led us to this impasse.

I cannot see how having a second referendum would be undemocratic,
having a second vote when people have more facts about the reality of leaving the EU would be democratic.
Sadly by leaving the EU we are denying our grandchildren many opportunities in Europe.
I know many 16 year olds who are more mature then some people twice their age.

grannygranby
Ok, you say 16m v 17m is too close to call a victory.
Suggest where the mark should be set.

As far as I'm concerned the only good thing to come out of this madness called Brexit ... Is that it has politicised a new generation of youngsters..
They are not sleep walking to isolationism ... They are shouting loudly for their future ...
And I think they are right ...

If we have a peoples vote ... Please god we do ... It should include our 16 year olds .... And all migrants living here for the last 5 years AND British migrants who have left Britain in the last 5 years
Apart from the illegalities associated with the referendum it was a slap in the face to a wide concerned and involved electorate ..

I'd vote for Scotland to be a separate country, if only to get rid of their carping about England on here.

To try and get a non-partisan view of these issues I went to a presentation recently by a Professor of EU Law. I was quite frankly horrified. I dont think any of us, possibly including some MPs, fully understand the consequences of us leaving the EU. It is by far and away our biggest trading partner with 80% of UK goods and services going to the EU. As soon as we leave, all our trading advantages as a member become null and void, particularly if we crash out. We then become one of many, many countries trying to sell into the vast European market comprising 27 countries, with no reason for the EU to give us priority. As to trade deals for other countries to supply us, the rest of the world are far more interested in negotiating to supply the EU market than they are in selling to the UK, which will then be one small and insignificant island on its own. Unless of course they can get away with supplying shoddy goods and services, a high possibility because the UK will no longer be operating to the EU standards that have given us high quality goods and services. End result everything here increases in price and decreases in quality. The Professor also warned that Canada has just negotiated the CETA trade deal with the EU and it took seven years. If it takes us that long what happens in the interim? Meanwhile once reality hits post Brexit then the blame game will start and politics in this country will become increasingly toxic. In the hour long presentation and questions I dont think there was one glimmer of good news.

Well said minxie.....I’m with you on this ...but...I think there is confusion over what a referendum is! It’s meant to be a ‘testing the water’ vote, or in other words an ‘advisory’ vote. The government is under no obligation to ‘
‘listen’ to or indeed act on the vote!

In 1960, my last year at Grammar school, the leaving age was 16 across all Grammars.
Secondary schools had a leaving age of 15.
For all those who want to be even-handed, you must want the voter to be educated and aware of the pros and cons and the ramifications of staying and leaving.
To have some understanding of how either outcome could impinge on their and their children's adult lives in many areas.
At an age when many of them can barely get their heads above a 45 degree angle and their lives are dictated by 'like's, selfies, exams and body shape issues (females) and the approval of their peer group, is it too much to expect the majority to know (or care about) where they put their cross?
Half of them haven't the words to articulate any knowledge they may have.
The minority are those whose parents talk politics at home, who have meaningful discussions at dinner, whose children are, for the most part, achievers as are their parents.
Many here are saying that it's a class thing, a Tory toffs/Bullingdon Club mentality who are miring us in this mess and the man in the street is not being represented.
I say, that there would be many 16 yr olds who wouldn't have a clue as to how to articulate answers, if indeed they understood the word 'ramifications' without prompting.
Of course, I expect many GNers to shoot that argument down in flames as their darling 16 yr old GC are educated, aware of the current situation and can argue the pros and cons robustly and knowledgeably.
For those who can't and whose parents don't routinely chat about Brexit (which action may strongly and unduly influence the previously mentioned group) what hope that their vote would be anything other than an exercise in drawing with a pencil?
You cannot legally drive on public roads until you are 17 (and have a licence)
You cannot buy alcohol or cigarettes before the age of 18.
You cannot get into adult clubs until you're 18.
Young offenders are those 18-20 and they are not routinely sent to adult prisons unless the severity of the crime warrants it.
16 yr olds need the permission of a parent or guardian before they can marry.
Scottish law is, in some respects, somewhat different.
We, in England, have differing views as to when we become adult enough to engage in and take responsibility for the results of the above activities.
At 16, rarely has anyone lived any sort of life beyond their home.

Starbird, I DO wonder how many people watched the recent programmes on ten years in the EU. It was extremely illuminating. Whoever would want to be in th EU after watching those programmes. Incidentally I voted remain, mainly because of economic reasons, plus the lies that were peddled from the remain side. I voted out of fear of rocking the boat. I would vote leave in any future (undemocratic) second referendum. I know so much more about the EU now, and what I know is I no longer want to be in it.

Mrs May never had a majority in the last general election to take the UK out of the EU, it’s only because the DUP are propping her up that she is holding on to the PMs job.

There should be a general election so we the voters can get rid of MPs we don’t like and clear the board so we can clear the mess that the Conservatives have caused.

Love your penultimate sentence cakebaker.

MaizieD Anything that our government has to do to comply with the EU, affects my life but I have no say in it via the ballot box.
Nothing that I am aware of meets the description of an economic union that is open to any country and has basic rules on the human rights of workers ( eg no slave labour). It would also need to have some agreed standards relating to sustainability and pollution. I agree that it is not easy to draw a line but I do think that the EU has overstepped the mark and especially with it’s wish to create a European Defence Force, is heading towards becoming a complete European government overriding National institutions.

Are you sure your info on the Lisbom Treaty is correct? Can you give a source?

I assume we all watched the three tv programs on 10 years of the EU? (or how Germany with the help of France came to rule Europe ?).

EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE please? *Reitred65 I can't find any of that in this: www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=48a4327a-c5e8-41a7-8000-c93e90abe763 did you make it up? If not please tell us where it came from.

Several have said lies were told on both sides and that is probably true but can you give examples of Remain lies which were really serious and likely to have impacted on people's decision which way to vote? Just saying lies were told doesn't hold water for me, I want to know what those lies were.

The number of children biking or walking to school has declined considerably in the last 20 years or so, so its not a generalisation.

Exactly! To save the planet we have to put a curb on all the contributory things that we now consider the norm and take for granted! ie, how and how much we travel, what we burn, building materials, manufacturing, use and the disposal of plastics and other harmful materials, and a host of other daily do's that we simply don't think twice about. Evolution can be a wonderful thing,but it can also be a killer.

You're making very sweeping assumptions about the children's lifestyle, Jalima which cannot be proven or debunked.
So best not made at all, IMO, as some people are bound to latch onto what you've said and repeat it as the 'truth'.

I agree with you MarthaBeck.
Especially if we have the chance to have another referendum: It is a ground breaking decision that will effect all our lives for decades. And the reason why, is not just that it was such a close call, with 16 million wanting to stay and 17 million wanting to leave... it is not a game of winner takes all: At the very least a compromise should be sought that reflects the division in the country.
The other reason is because the 2016 referendum was so badly planned: There were no conditions put in place for such s close call as is usual with such critical decisions; it occurred just after all universities broke up actually during Glastonbury but no facilities were offered there to vote. If it had been held in term time there would have been a much bigger turn out from students and the youth. Then of course the anti EU propaganda peddled out by the tabloids for years, drip drip and the lies told and printed I won’t even mention buses.. and the overspending fraudulent amounts...
The populace was emotionally manipulated whereas the politicians assumed that rationality would prevail, that and the advice from all the experts from Barsck Obama to every scientist and leaders of industry. People were told to ignore experts.
It’s really quite simple, the rules and laws generated in the EU protect Everyman. Of course they are a thorn in the side of the privileged and powerful who also have to abide by those rules. Of course they want to abolish them and become all powerful with no restraints. The EU protects workers, women, the weak and oppressed as well as offering a whole continent to enjoy work live and study in.
It was extraordinary that uk citizens living in other EU countries weren’t allowed to vote and neither were citizens of other EU countries living in the UK. The people to whom the result would have the most effect were denied a vote. Is that democratic? Is that fair?

The 2016 must be verified at the very least and 16 year olds should be included. If they are old enough to join the army and get married and have children of course they are old enough to vote for their self interests.

^ the WORLD has moved on from those times and its a normal part of life for many people to have foreign holidays or lifts to school ^
But, paddyann, these young people are demonstrating in favour of those in charge doing something about climate change, about the destruction of the planet - to which this so-called normal part of life is contributing.

They can't have their cake and eat it.

we WON in 1979