Put it to the people march - are you going?

We're all entitled to our views MaisieD! You are of course so well informed and dictatorial which could be the reason that no one with differing views bothers to engage in any sort of discourse with you

I can't March, but if I could get to London (which I cannot afford and can't get to the railway station anyway because of lack of guises) I would wheel willingly! I really wish I could go

he facts are that Northern voters did vote to leave the EU and that many traditional Labour voters had defected to UKIP prior to that

No, I haven't forgotten that, Jalima but how is it relevant to the poll results that varian posted?

The survey of 5,000 voters across the North, Yorkshire and Humber and the Midlands found that 76% would support staying in the EU, with 24% against.

As for your original question, I don't think that the pollsters actually go into the detail of respondents' previous political allegiances (unless that's the specific purpose of the poll) , so the answer must be 'How could anyone possibly know?'

First and foremost they MUST understand that once you've joined you CANNOT leave under ANY circumstances,

Oh do stop being melodramatic, Jabberwok.

There was, in fact, a very well thought out and detailed plan for leaving which had every chance of succeeding. It would have involved incremental steps and taken place over a long period to accommodate the massive changes required to law, regulation and the agencies required. But it was ignored and would in no way have satisfied the uninformed but well manipulated masses who think that leaving 40+ years of legal and regulatory integration can be cut off, pouf, with no detriment to the UK.

However much the 'leaving a club' analogy is pushed it just isn't that simple. There isn't an analogy that really applies but the 'club' one worked wonders at persuading the simple minded that it would all be absolutely fine...

I, and others, are still agog to hear how being in the EU has harmed the people who voted Leave (personal stories, please, not woolly generalisations about 'sovereignty and border control etc.) and what the tangible benefits are going to be.

Facts, experts and poo-poo - James says it exactly as it is:

www.facebook.com/LBC/videos/2188144827898716/

and now it seems that Mrs May will pull the meaning vote again tomorrow, and keep kicking the can.

So not only are people not given the chance to vote on the reality and real consequences of Brexit- neither will our elected Parliamentary Representatives

and then they say 'ah, but this is Democracy' what a sick farce.

It is clear that leaving the EU is a tangled task, especially after being in for so long. But it has been compounded by incompetence at the highest level; and the disgraceful situation where party has been put before national interest. This applies to the decision to have a referendum in the first place and to the negotiations to leave.

I think this whole exercise must be a lesson to any country wishing to join or leave the EU! First and foremost they MUST understand that once you've joined you CANNOT leave under ANY circumstances, so don't even think about it, never mind have a public vote!! Article 50 would leave you to believe that you can, but in reality you cannot, you are effectively handcuffed and chained till the end of time! Surely Article 50 is the biggest lie of all, leading people to believe the impossible?!

Well, MaizieD, the facts are that Northern voters did vote to leave the EU and that many traditional Labour voters had defected to UKIP prior to that.
Or had you forgotten about that?

In the realms of probability - yes.

Is it likely, Jalima?

Now come on, realms of probability and all that...

Are these the same Labour voters who defected to UKIP but have now changed their minds again varian?

Northern Labour voters overwhelmingly back the party’s shift towards a new Brexit referendum, a fresh poll has found.

More than 75% of people who voted Labour in 2017 and expressed a preference backed the move, according to a YouGov poll for the People’s Vote campaign.

Some 35%, said the policy change to push for a new Brexit vote made them feel more favourably towards Labour, while 14% said it made them feel less so.

The survey of 5,000 voters across the North, Yorkshire and Humber and the Midlands found that 76% would support staying in the EU, with 24% against.

If it was a choice between Remain and backing Prime Minister Theresa May's Withdrawal Agreement, the split would be 81% to 19% in favour of staying in the EU, according to the survey.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/northern-labour-voters-back-brexit-14080600

I am going, accommodation and train tickets booked. Went on the last one too.

Well there is a solution to the British border in Ireland which the British government put forward and the EU agreed to, trouble is the DUP hypocrites don't want to be treated differently from the rest of the UK ( except where it suits them - gay marriage and abortion etc). As they have the casting vote in a minority government it surely is the tail wagging the dog.

Yes, Lucky, I agree- apart from the fact that an explanation explaining how the vote was illegally influenced, with facts- would not be 'rubbishing' the vote and those who voted- but would explain clearly that it cannot be implemented- especially now we realise it would be so damaging, and that there is NO solution to the NI/Eire border.

I guess I cannot see how they can back away from it now; and feel very firmly that if there is to be another vote it should be done properly this time:

- the right question that reflects where we are now;
- the availability and distribution of impartial information on which to make a decision;
- no lobbying campaigns from either side (this is not a party issue) - just the above information to everyone through their letterboxes;
- a set turnout condition;
- a set margin condition.

A document "rubbishing" the previous referendum, whilst it might be accurate and make sense, might inflame public opinion even more. Those who choose not to believe that analysis (of which there will be many) will just be angry and more determined.

What we need at this stage are careful steps to move forward without creating more division. One of the ways would be, if there were another vote, to approach it in a less tribal fashion.

I think we have got ourselves in a right mess, and anything that happens now needs to be better thought through than what has gone before. And the aim should be to unite rather than to divide - that is my biggest worry about this situation.

They agreed in extraordinary circumstances - they are NOW fully aware of the many fraudulent activities which led to a very small minority.

Whichever way you voted- I cannot fathom how anyone, leave, left, right, remain or anybody in between - can ignore the massive evidence which has come forward after article 50 was (reluctantly for many) triggered- proven fraud, proven illegal funds, proven illegal targetting of groups who previously did not vote, proven foreign interference- and of course, the lies- the huge lies.

Parliament agreed to trigger article 50 for us to withdraw from the EU.
Trying to drag their heels now of course, but they know they
Have to leave in the end.
I think they will vote for a few more months, but who knows, May could produce enough legal tweaks to the backstop to get the vote through.
Most in the country just want Parliament to get on with it,whichever way they voted in the referendum.

Again, and I do respect your opnion Lucygirl - I actually think that it would be relatively 'easy' for all the opposition parties, to get together and put together a very clear document, with links- proving that the Referendum was won on lies, fraud, illegal targetting, dodgy money, foreign interference- with the evidence now clearly available- and also explain that the Electoral Commission would at this stage cancel the vote due to above- but cannot do so because the Referendum, according to our own Sovereign Laws- was and cannot ever be otherwise, whatever Cameron illegally promised - ADVISORY AND NON BINDING.

Insisting that Brexit is 'the will of the people' with the above now proven and more information coming forward (remember the Met was probably told to take its time and not investigate properly due to being 'politically sensitive - talk about 'democracy' when the Police's hands are tied behind their back to protect Government) - is NOT Democratic. Going back to the people, and asking them to decide with all the information and understanding of consequences - IS the ONLY democratic thing to do at this stage.

They also need a clear explanation about the back stop, and how the NI/Eire border is an issue that has NO solution.

Well, I guess the government would say that they are following "the will of the people" - I imagine they would not be arsing around with this hot potato if this was not what they thought.

They have gone so far down the road of treating the referendum result as binding that it is virtually impossible to turn back now.

Any referendum on the current deal would need to be accompanied by some very detailed information about it (with informed and impartial comment on it) or it would be a second fiasco.

I think it is going to be massive. People I know who have never done any sort of protest are going.
What worries me is the fact that it is still possible for the whole thing to be ignored by those who don't actually care a monkey's for 'the will of the people'

Yup, I'll be there, with DH, DD2, her partner and little GD.

jura - I think the original referendum was fundamentally wrong in countless ways - not least the reasons for which it was undertaken in the first place.

I am aggrieved that it happened in the first place and was so basically flawed.

But I guess that it is hard to decide what is the safest and most sensible way back from this flawed use of a referendum, that flies in the face of our accepted parliamentary democracy.

The idea of trying to reverse the referendum decision by holding another is going to inflame the situation even more; even though I absolutely accept the logic that the tiny majority makes the outcome dubious.

It is such a minefield. I do have concerns about the direction that the EU has been heading in; and I think these concerns are shared by many in Europe. But what we have now is the worst of all possible worlds in a deal that will satisfy neither ends of the opinion spectrum.

It is all an unholy mess, and makes me very sad.

Even this morning someone interviewed on Sky News said he voted leave so that MP's wouldn't be controlled by Europe and that we could have whatever shaped banana we wanted. Oh and someone else said he was quite happy to leave the EU because his company dealt mainly with the far east.

Luckygirl- I hear you.

And yet- don't you think millions will be aggrieved that Democracy has been trashed in pushing the results, very small majority- of a Referendum won on massive lies, and now proven fraud, proven interference from abroad, proven use of dodgy money, proven secret targetting of vulnerable
groups - and against our own Sovereign Laws which clearly stipulate that Refs are always and cannot be anything else, but advisory.

And without any information whatsoever as to consequences. Many people did believe that the NHS would get massive funds, for instance.

What is damaging our Parliamentary Democracy is the the above- and Parliament, and Mrs May- could now explain it all very clearly.

To be in the situation now, where the Electoral Commission says that for any vote or election- the current evidence would lead to cancellation - but they can't do this, because the Referendum is advisory by Law - is a sick farce- and a total affront to Democracy.